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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 1156 of 3207 (857290)
07-07-2019 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1142 by dwise1
07-06-2019 11:55 PM


Re: The Gospel Of Materialism in opposition to Intelligent Design
Thuggee Admin:
I still say that nobody could possibly be as utterly clueless and unaware as Faith pretends to be. She's putting on an act like a typical creationist troll.
And I still maintain that she does not worship the Christian God but rather an evil god whom she serves through lies. Given her pretend theological bend, I would identify her god as the Lord of Lies, the Prince of Darkness. All the evidence points in that direction.
And I still ask that somebody explain to her those extremely simple facts that she willfully refuses to understand.
Edited by dwise1, : added to whom it may concern

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1142 by dwise1, posted 07-06-2019 11:55 PM dwise1 has not replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1157 of 3207 (857294)
07-07-2019 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1149 by Faith
07-07-2019 6:56 AM


Re: chances
would you tell us if you've ever had a similar kind of experience, a vision or a voice or the ilke?
Though as a youth I was exposed to batshit crazy religious people I was fortunate to avoid the cerebral contamination BCRPS describes.
There were a number of times when I felt overwhelming body-wrenching out-of-mind episodes, complete with visions and voices, but these don’t fit the syndrome as they were in the midst of powerful orgasms.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1149 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 6:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1159 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 2:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1158 of 3207 (857304)
07-07-2019 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1151 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2019 10:56 AM


Re: chances
I wasn't thinking of any experimental data on the positions of atoms
It's not about experimental data. Atoms don't have actual positions regardless of experiments.
I was merely thinking of the similar question, "Is the universe just a simulation?" and removing the simulator, leaving a pure number
The answer would appear to be no. The state of the universe cannot be represented as a number according to modern quantum theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1151 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2019 10:56 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1160 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 2:27 PM Son Goku has replied
 Message 1175 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2019 11:08 PM Son Goku has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1159 of 3207 (857308)
07-07-2019 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1157 by AZPaul3
07-07-2019 12:43 PM


Re: chances
Lucky you.
But it doesn't have to be either/or (well, maybe the way YOU thlnk about it, it does.)
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 12:43 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1161 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 2:35 PM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1160 of 3207 (857309)
07-07-2019 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1158 by Son Goku
07-07-2019 1:47 PM


Re: chances
Again, laymen are dangerous.
Atoms don't have actual positions regardless of experiments.
Isn't this where the measurement problem comes in? Collapse of the wave function to a single spike? Is this not the actual (+- Heisenberg) location?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1158 by Son Goku, posted 07-07-2019 1:47 PM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1189 by Son Goku, posted 07-08-2019 5:36 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1161 of 3207 (857310)
07-07-2019 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1159 by Faith
07-07-2019 2:25 PM


Re: chances
But it doesn't have to be either/or (well, maybe the way YOU ***** about it, it does.)
Confusion. What "it" are we talking about?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1159 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 2:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 2:49 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1162 of 3207 (857311)
07-07-2019 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1161 by AZPaul3
07-07-2019 2:35 PM


Re: chances
The two different sources of visionary experiences. The spiritual and the sexual. Yes I know you were being mocking as usual.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1161 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 2:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1172 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 8:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1163 of 3207 (857314)
07-07-2019 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1156 by dwise1
07-07-2019 11:17 AM


Re: The Gospel Of Materialism in opposition to Intelligent Design
Fair enough, lets go back and review the exchange. I am going to take this response over to General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List'). Meet me there. Message 1029
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Replace text for thread and message with links.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by dwise1, posted 07-07-2019 11:17 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1164 of 3207 (857317)
07-07-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1147 by AZPaul3
07-07-2019 6:06 AM


Re: BCRPS
AZPaul3 writes:
Science is not limited by *any* phenomenon humans can experience. We can science anything.
Batshit Crazy Religious Person Syndrome is just another example.
Are you thus claiming that every "religious" or spiritual believing person who claims to have allowed the Spirit of the Living God into them is thus delusional and crazy?
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1147 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 6:06 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1165 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 4:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1166 by jar, posted 07-07-2019 5:05 PM Phat has replied
 Message 1170 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 7:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1165 of 3207 (857322)
07-07-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by Phat
07-07-2019 3:48 PM


Re: BCRPS
Of course he is. He despises religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by Phat, posted 07-07-2019 3:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1166 of 3207 (857326)
07-07-2019 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by Phat
07-07-2019 3:48 PM


Re: BCRPS
Phat writes:
Are you thus claiming that every "religious" or spiritual believing person who claims to have allowed the Spirit of the Living God into them is thus delusional and crazy?
No, rather asking "How do you know and what is the evidence to support your claim? What is the 'Spirit of the Living God' and what is the test for its presence?"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by Phat, posted 07-07-2019 3:48 PM Phat has replied

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1167 of 3207 (857334)
07-07-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1154 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2019 11:06 AM


Re: chances
Sarah Bellum writes:
Is the holographic theory anything like the hypothesis that our universe is just "a program on someone else’s hard drive"?
I don't think so. My basic understanding is that our universe is a holographic projection of a lower dimensional reailty. That is quite probably away off base.
Here is the wiki site on it which goes into detail that is over my head.
Cheers
Holographic Principle

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1154 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2019 11:06 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1168 of 3207 (857335)
07-07-2019 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1148 by Son Goku
07-07-2019 6:53 AM


Re: chances
Son Goku writes:
So there is an assumption of some kind of "reasoning agent" who changes their expectations because of what they've learned, but it's not invoking some mysterious power of consciousness. It's unlike classical theories which are written as a description of the world and don't assume the presence of an agent. However this agent is present for the same reason it is in gambling theory: parts of the mathematics represent what they've learned.
Thank you so much for your reply. I have read it several times to try and understand the concepts. Could you go into a little more detail of what would constitute a "reasoning agent". Also what would be left if there no "reasoning agent" in the universe? And one more: what would constitute a reasoning agent other than a conscious entity or a measurement by a conscious entity?

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1148 by Son Goku, posted 07-07-2019 6:53 AM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1190 by Son Goku, posted 07-08-2019 5:47 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1169 of 3207 (857338)
07-07-2019 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Son Goku
10-11-2012 3:01 AM


Re: God
Son Goku writes:
Well I think without a doubt that there is strong evidence against the existence of most deities commonly believed in. So although one could still support a general Platonic "lives outside time" god with a reasonable argument, I think the case against specific gods is simply too strong and so I would say I know Yahweh, Zeus, e.t.c. do not exist.
For Yahweh for instance, his personality is typical of the gods of Semite cultures of the period, he literally uses stock phrases that occur among other Semite gods such as the Babylonian gods. e.g. "Was it not I who X,Y...."
His opinions and values reflect those of a Bronze age Semite culture.
He is described as taking part in events which we know did not occur historically or performed feats for which there is explicit evidence they did not occur (stopping the Sun).
Ultimately the case that he exists is no stronger than the case for Enlil.
I would say I know all specific gods worshipped by any culture do not exist. The existence of an abstract creator God is a more difficult question, but I find that people often defend the existence of the abstract God in arguments, while personally believing in one of the specific human ones.
I found this post very interesting and I do take issue with it in one sense. I’d like to quote this part of your post again.
quote:
For Yahweh for instance, his personality is typical of the gods of Semite cultures of the period, he literally uses stock phrases that occur among other Semite gods such as the Babylonian gods. e.g. "Was it not I who X,Y...."
His opinions and values reflect those of a Bronze age Semite culture.
He is described as taking part in events which we know did not occur historically or performed feats for which there is explicit evidence they did not occur (stopping the Sun).
Ultimately the case that he exists is no stronger than the case for Enlil.
As a Christian I do believe in Yahweh, but I am also completely in agreement with your statements. I don’t believe in any of those things that you mentioned either. There are the even more obvious cases that I don’t believe in either, such Yahweh ordering or committing genocide, ordering public stoning etc.
I also agree that much of how Yahweh is represented in the Bible is the result of other local cultures and religions in the area. Also, so much of what is in the OT is about trying to control God as opposed to serving Him in order to make this world a better place for all, as we get from Jesus in the NT.
If to be a Christian meant understanding the Bible to be inerrant, then I could no longer be a Christian. The Bible is full of contradictions including small variations in time and in major ways in terms of ethics. However, even within the OT there are also threads of a loving God who would abhor much of what is written about Him in the OT.
I have read the Quran, the Book of Buddha and you can find the same situation there as well. My point is that if you take religious texts and treat them as divinely written then none of the world’s religions hold up.
For myself I see the Bible as being the progressive understanding of mankind concerning the nature of God and how that should impact our lives.
This isn’t about trying to convert you to anything but just to point out that it isn’t just about holy books and what they say in a literal sense. Religions are all created by humans trying to understand the nature of God. Unfortunately it is too often about how we can connect with some god so that we can get him/her/it to do whatever it is we want from him/her/it. The point should be that we worship in order to give thanks for life and offer our lives up to serving this deity. In the Christian case it is all about loving all of God’s creation. Christianity is really simple until you get into the theology of it.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Son Goku, posted 10-11-2012 3:01 AM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1192 by Son Goku, posted 07-08-2019 6:07 AM GDR has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1170 of 3207 (857340)
07-07-2019 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1164 by Phat
07-07-2019 3:48 PM


Re: BCRPS
Requiring sufficient amounts of objective evidence to justify a conclusion is a bad failing of mine.
Are you thus claiming that every "religious" or spiritual believing person who claims to have allowed the Spirit of the Living God into them is thus delusional and crazy?
When someone walks in here with all the power of the internet behind them and spouts off nonsense about invisible beings with tremendous power that ultimately cannot be shown?
Yah.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1164 by Phat, posted 07-07-2019 3:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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