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Author | Topic: The Case For A Creator | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Of course not. What religion is? I would argue that the "religion" of Christianity was never meant to be discerned and accepted based on objective verifiable evidence.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're crazy. It's a paranoid delusion, like Faith seeing leftists behind every tree. In addition, I believe that we are in a spiritual war and that there are literally principalities, powers, and assignments against the Christian message. Dont ask me why---just call me crazy.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You can't include all of those as eyewitnesses. They may have seen but they didn't testify. The only testimony we have is from the gospel writers themselves (who weren't necessarily eyewitnesses themselves). There were a lot more than a "few" eyewitnesses to most of Jesus' miracles among other things. He fed thousands from a few loaves. He provided enough wine for a whole wedding feast etc etc.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No, you can not include characters in the story as eyewitnesses to the story. That should be obvious. A storyteller saying they were eyewitnesses doesn't make them eyewitesses. But I surely would include some even if but a small minority. And even if the event did really happen, you would not get thousands of eyewitnesses telling the same story. You'd get so many different versions that it would be impossible to tell what actually happened.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
And what I'm trying to get across is that those "events" are not real events at all. The effect on the reader does not determine the reality of the events. People can be affected by fictional events as readily as by real events.
But what I am trying (unsuccessfully) to get through your thick skulls is that the event and events that I am describing are in fact life changing events for every single one of us. Phat writes:
Why do you keep lying about that? I have told you many times that I respect the book more than you do. I'm the one who quotes it to you and you're the one who rejects it.
The fact that you are unimpressed nor moved by the book and its contents is also noted. Phat writes:
We're not talking about contradictions or inconsistencies here. We're talking about you flat-out contradicting what the Bible says. Pulling up contradictions and inconsistencies is simply human attempts at manipulation of interpretation of reality.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Same with the "Oooh, the universe has such a complex structure!"
Chaplain: Let us praise God. O Lord... Congregation: O Lord... Chaplain: ...Ooh, You are so big... Congregation: ...Ooh, You are so big... Chaplain: ...So absolutely huge. Congregation: ...So absolutely huge. Chaplain: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You. Congregation: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You. Chaplain: Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and... Congregation: And barefaced flattery. Chaplain: But You are so strong and, well, just so super. Congregation: Fantastic. Humphrey: Amen. Congregation: Amen. -- Monty Python's The meaning of LifeAll that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And I answered: You don't want that to be the standard because your god doesn't meet the standard. Its like I told ringo:quote: If your god existed, he should be easy to prove: Pray for the sick and they're healed - every time.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do the voices in your ringo claims that everything known and/or knowable about the Christian God and His Son Jesus Christ is contained within the book. Which would suggest that God (and Jesus) could never truly be alive within reality and within one's heart... If somebody had never heard of Jesus suddenly found Jesus "alive in their heart", would they know about the stories of Jesus at all?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's the opposite of fantasy. It's the standard we use for everything else. You wouldn't keep going to a doctor who consistently failed to make you feel better. Why do you apply a lower standard to your god? ringo writes:
But thats your arbitrary and fantasy based standard. If your god existed, he should be easy to prove: Pray for the sick and they're healed - every time.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm going by your definition as much as possible but you have a very slippery definition. You're quite happy to use the Bible when it suits you but not when it puts any responsibility on you.
But you don't define God. Phat writes:
But you're making up that definition.
God if God exists is not measurable nor applicable to the rigors of typical scientific observation. One does not simply make God up by definition. Phat writes:
Stop it, stop it, stop it. If you want to discuss the topic constructively and honestly, you have to assume that we all have the same desire to find God as you do.
It may well be, however...that some of the more logical minds among us are unable to connect with God due to a reservation of unbelief due to the facts at hand which they hold as the defining marker of such a relationship. Phat writes:
Bullshit.
Belief is the prerequisite for encounter and communion. Phat writes:
Why not? God does not simply appear objectively and unabashedly to anyone and everyone...All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 667 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How do you know it's Jehovah and not Zeus or Thor? Answer this question. You limit yourself to begin with by claiming that none of us can know if its God or not.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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