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Author | Topic: A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17914 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
quote: It’s a transposition. A section of DNA from elsewhere in the genome has been swapped in for the DNA that is present in the white moths.
Transposable Element
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Ahh, so it was there all the time. How clever of the DNA to know that and make the switch just in time.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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4petdinos Junior Member (Idle past 1999 days) Posts: 2 From: Chesterfield Joined:
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By what mechanism does a genome vary with each generation? Like what do you think is physically occurring in the DNA to give rise to different versions of the same genes, i.e. variation?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17914 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
quote: Unless you actually found some real evidence it probably isn’t worth repeating.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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Quadrupole Domesticated Dinosauria. The name. The avatar. The whole meme. Very nice.
Welcome to EvC, 4petdinos. Pull up a chair.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1658 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, 4petdinos,
By what mechanism does a genome vary with each generation? Like what do you think is physically occurring in the DNA to give rise to different versions of the same genes, i.e. variation? Faith will (likely) tell you they emerge when evolution depletes the genome and loses the more dominant variations. Or something like that IIRC. Enjoy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1698 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It’s a transposition. A section of DNA from elsewhere in the genome has been swapped in for the DNA that is present in the white moths. OK, and how do you know that this transposition was the result of a mistaken in replication rather than a sequence that was already there?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1698 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
By what mechanism does a genome vary with each generation? Like what do you think is physically occurring in the DNA to give rise to different versions of the same genes, i.e. variation? Different alleles for different genes in different individuals among other things.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
Faith writes: OK, and how do you know that this transposition was the result of a mistaken in replication rather than a sequence that was already there? I know this is a radical idea for you so brace yourself - why not read some of the papers on it? That way you might at least know what it is you're objecting too. Here's a bit of a commentary that might help.
quote: You might also note this regarding your other problem:
quote: Peppered moth mutation discovered at last – Why Evolution Is True Edited by Admin, : Add double spacing to improve readability of first quoted section.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Taq Member Posts: 10299 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Faith writes: What I "expect" isn't about my own guesses, it's about what I've picked up from YOU GUYS by reading various web sites and so on. That's a bit strange since I have stated over and over that random mutations can produce beneficial mutations. Obviously, you are ignoring what we are saying.
Where I used to think a single trait such as eye color was probably governed by many genes, it seems now that it's governed by different regions of a single gene?????? How that works I don't yet grasp since I thought a whole gene made a particular protein, which protein is what brought about the trait. There are multiple genes that can affect eye color, but most variation in eye color is affected by two genes. One of those genes is for the protein, and different mutations will affect the function of that protein. The other gene controls how much of that protein is made.
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Taq Member Posts: 10299 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
caffeine writes: MC1R is a very famous gene, since it's effect on coloration makes its mutations obvious, and since variation in MC1R plays a role in some of the most immediately obvious variation amongst humans. For the same reasons of obvious phenotypic effect, MC1R has been extensively studied in other animals. Wild boar, for example, are monotypic for MC1R - all wild animals have the same allele. Domestic pigs, however, have at least four different MC1R alleles, which contribute to the huge variation in colour of domestic breeds. Now, it is of course possible that the ancestral wild population contained all these alleles, which have coincidentally been lost by drift in the reduced wild population. It seems much more likely to me, though, that these are all post-domestication mutations which have spread once pigs were removed from the selective constraints of camouflage. This sort of thing has presumably created the canvas from which breeders have selected in many domesticated species. You may have seen me references this paper before, but there is a great study on MC1R and natural selection in rock pocket mice: Just a moment...
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Taq Member Posts: 10299 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Faith writes: And since you note that there are recognizable differences between chimp and human organs and bones although we have the same organs and bones, evolution has the task of making all those "small" changes in all those parts of the body. Seems to me that's a case of the usual wishful thinking that fuels all the assumptions of the ToE. As I have already shown, we have the evidence that evolution was responsible for the differences between the chimp and human genomes. It isn't an assumption. The fingerprint of random mutations is all over those genomes. Every time you say it is an assumption it is a lie. We have the evidence.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17914 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
quote: It really would be vastly improbable that it would look like a transposition, wouldn’t it ? Tangle points out that it’s over 20,000 nucleotides. That sort of match doesn’t occur by chance.
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Taq Member Posts: 10299 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Faith writes: What I doubt is that they make useful alleles. Then you need to explain why changes to a genome can never be beneficial. If this were the case then even God could not create different species since any differences from this one and only possible functional genome would be either neutral or detrimental.
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Taq Member Posts: 10299 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Faith writes: Seems to me both the peppered moths and the pocket mice used to be described in more drastic terms: it threatens their very existence if they don't get the other color to save them. "Used to be described"? Where? I bet you can't cite a single example.
Anyway, the way both situations are being described now there never was really any controversy. So I guess I got it wrong. Both colors were always available and the protective color proliferated when the background made it necessary since the predators would pick off the contrasting color. No controversy after all, nothing interesting really. The peppered moths were doing just fine in areas where coal ash had not darkened trees and rocks. They didn't need the mutation to survive. The mutation that produced the darker color just allowed them to expand their range into areas where coal ash had darkened the environment. If that mutation had not happened there would have been millions and millions of peppered moths out in the countryside and in other areas around the globe. Wikipedia is your friend:
quote: The pocket mice were doing just with light brown fur that camouflaged them in the light brown desert. The mutation that gave them black fur allowed them to expand their range into areas with black rocks. If that mutation never happened there would still be millions and millions of light brown pocket mice out in the deserts of the southwest US.
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