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Author | Topic: A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
You're looking at it wrong. The DNA is already organized. Mutation is just a re- organization. Why can't you at least THINK about how any such random event could ever in a million years get selected toward some organized new phenotype? You're asking the equivalent of, "How can the letters in a sentence be re-arranged to form a different sentence?" Very easily. Very naturally.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And some of them don't. Unless you can guarantee that EVERY mutation will be selected out - and of course you can't - you can't prevent evolution. ... most of them get selected out....All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
A variation in the genome IS a change in the genome. All that's ever going to be selected is a variation on the given genome, you are never going to get changes to the genome....All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yup. NopeAll that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
It's actually a triple play: rodent to ungulate to whale. ... I fail to see what any of this this has to do breeding ancient rodents to eventually produce a whale. The problem with trying to breed that change is that we don't know all of the steps along the way. If you walk from New York to San Francisco, we know you stopped at Detroit and Chicago and St. Louis and Denver because we have time-stamped pictures of you in each of those places. But we don't know the exact route that you took from New York to Detroit or from St. Louis to Denver, etc. We do know that you went from New York to San Francisco.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Do you understand the difference between "rare" and "non-existent"? You seem to keep saying that evolution by beneficial mutation is "impossible" when the truth is that even you understand that it's rare. I think everybody here agrees that it's rare but like lottery wins, it does happen.. ... mutations are RANDOM and beneficial ones VERY RARE.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
So you haven't even looked at the evidence that was presented but you're perfectly ready to declare that there is none.
All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Creationism doesn't require genetics at all. For that matter, it doesn't even require biology. Um, the creation model is all about genetic differences. I read a story once about a man who found a snake in his bathtub. Every time he got into the tub, the snake would be there but when he let the water out, it was gone. Finally, after many tries, he managed to catch it and kill it. When he took it to a lab to have it dissected, it had no internal organs, no internal structure at all. It turned out that it was created by his imagination; since he didn't know anything about the internals of a snake, he couldn't imagine them or create them. That's creationism all over - no need for internal organs at all. God did it.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It is interesting that you want to leave God out of creationism (and out of the Flood too, for that matter). But what's the point of your crank ideas if God and miracles are not involved? You keep saying "God did it" but I haven't said it at all....All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
But you keep admiting that you can't explain the scientific facts. And now you're saying that you don't even have to explain the scientific facts. That's as unscientific as you could possibly get.
Then it can be seen that it's based only on scientific facts and not crank ideas. Faith writes:
Why make that distinction? Why have God do the miracle of creation, then stop doing miracles, then at some later date presumably start doing miracles again? But I also explained that the original Creation was God's doing. After that we work from what He made. Your attempts at "explanations" are laughably, pitifully bad, full of contradictions and ignorance. Why not just let your God do a miracle here or there?All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
You are terrifically confused, but aggressively sure you are right about what you're wrong about.
You are terrifically confused, but aggressively sure you are right about what you're wrong about. Faith writes:
The facts are relevant, period. If you have no explanation of the facts, you have no explanation. You can't just handwave away the facts that you can't explain.
What you are calling the "scientific facts" I'm supposedly "admitting I can't explain" are what I've been saying are relevant to the ToE but not to Creationism. Faith writes:
But it isn't, because you refuse to even try to explain the natural events.
... AS I SAID, the discussion is about the natural phenomena that follow. Faith writes:
I, for one, know very little about evolution; I am certainly not "enveloped" in it. I'm more or less at the stage where Darwin was when he said to himself, "The Bible story doesn't explain this." I understand that everybody's mind is so enveloped in evolutionism it's hard to think in creationism terms. I criticize creationism on it's own lack of merit, not because I'm married to evolution. Creationists are the ones who are making the Bible story into a bigger mess than it needs to be.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Facts do not "derive from" the ToE. Facts are observations of reality.
No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE... Faith writes:
You have it backwards. If you your model can not explain the facts, it is your model that is irrelevant.
No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE and are NOT relevant to the Creation model... Faith writes:
You do if you want to be taken seriously scientifically. No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE and are NOT relevant to the Creation model are NOT facts I have to deal with. With this latest tactic of yours, you are divorcing yourself entirely from any pretense of being scientific.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What would be an incentive for you to learn? Telling you you're right? Having my thots treated as trash, even my most lengthy well thot out stuff, is supposed to be an incentive to "learn" according to all of you.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 662 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Everybody needs to learn more. You, in particular, have admitted many times that there are questions you can't answer.
I don't ***** it's true that I "don't learn" and need to learn more... Faith writes:
Or you just don't respond. That's not a sign that you're learning anything. I do learn all the time when I see that I need to take something into account that I've been missing.All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo
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