|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Some states protect women's rights | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't call them murderers, in fact you criticize me for not calling them murderers or not calling abortion murder. However, I think it is crucially important for women to know that abortion is killing an unborn child, because that's the only way the reality of the situation will affect their attitude toward abortion. The usual propaganda about abortion leaves it very vague what exactly is going on, using scientific terms like fetus and embryo to suggest it isn't really a living baby, aiming not to upset the pregnant woman and cause her to reject abortion. If she thinks it's not really a child, not a living thing even, abortion won't bother her.
But sometimes women inadvertently find out that it really is a living baby in spite of all the propaganda and that discovery can be very traumatic. Seeing the aborted fetus in the trash can when it does "look like a baby" has been the unhappy experience of some women who become terribly depressed as a result. I think we all know it's a baby in spite of ourselves anyway and that's why many women get depressed after an abortion even when they rationalize it away. I had to see a film in which the fetus sucks its thumb and reacts to pain in the womb to realize that it is a living human being. That's what happened to Abby Johnson when she was running an abortion clinic. The reality finally came home to her that abortion kills human beings. Pro-choicers knock themselves out trying to keep us from recognizing this reality, and it IS reality. When you KNOW the reality, that it IS a living human being, your conscience won't let you kill it. That's rock bottom. That's where we need to start talking on this subject, not on the level of "women's rights" which is a monumental deception since there is no way for a sane society to establish a Right to kill a human being at any stage of its development. OF COURSE this is where pro-lifers focus, it is THE central issue, but you are wrong that we don't care about the women's situation and that's why there are services available all over the country (except Alabama?). They can always be improved of course._ Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
We don't need the government for any of this. It's the churches that run these services. So it's the churches that need to improve them where they are inadequate.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You have a short memory. You have called them murderers, which is why I criticized you for not wanting to treat them as murderers.
I don't call them murderers, in fact you criticize me for not calling them murderers or not calling abortion murder. Faith writes:
There you go again. If it was killing a "child", it would be murder.
However, I think it is crucially important for women to know that abortion is killing an unborn child... Faith writes:
Abortion bothers everybody. It's making the best of a bad situation.
If she thinks it's not really a child, not a living thing even, abortion won't bother her. Faith writes:
You're being dishonest with yourself. If you really thought it was a "baby", you wouldn't be so loath to call abortion murder. I think we all know it's a baby in spite of ourselves anyway....Izquierdo.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4443 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
|
Faith writes: We don't need the government for any of this. Well, government is supposed to work for all of us. A lot of people think that our country is stronger if ALL our children have access to healthcare, enough to eat, a good education and a home.
Faith writes: It's the churches that run these services. So it's the churches that need to improve them where they are inadequate. Considering the number of children living in poverty today in the U.S. compared to other developed nations, the only way the churches could be doing a worse job is if they started starving children. Churches routinely turn people away that don't meet their "Christian standards."What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
If it isn't getting done, clearly we need somebody to do it. We don't need the government for any of this.Izquierdo.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member
|
Nevertheless a fetus is genetically a full human being.... Well, I'm not sure whether "genetics" has anything to do with it, does it? I'd be concerned over your welfare regardless of what your "genetics" might be. Hell, I don't even care whether you even have genes! I certainly don't care how similar you are "genetically" to me or any other person. "Genetics", I think, is going to be a dead end as an argument.If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
|
Those services constantly lie to pregnant women.
Page not found | Journal of Ethics | American Medical Association
quote: The Truth About 7 Lies You Might Hear At A Crisis Pregnancy Center quote:Discussion of why these are lies or misleading at the link. Many women have attested to encountering these, such as the stories at CPCs Lie - We Are UltraViolet or You’ve reached a 404 page.. Oh, yeah, lots of them lie about birth control too.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
JonF writes:
Well, that would explain why there aren't enough resources to provide actual services. Those services constantly lie to pregnant women.Izquierdo.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I think your lists are the lies. I've never heard those things. I suppose CPC do present objections to abortion but there's no reason to think they do it as stupidly as you like to think. Nobody forces the women to stay through the pregnancy, they can go get an abortion if that's what they decide to do, but of course the CPC does its best to convince her that this is a baby and abortion kills babies. Your stuff sounds like fake news to me, propaganda to discredit these services. What, you found ONE such service somewhere so that tars all of them? there must be thousands of them across the country.
When I mentioned these services I was thinking of how they help to get women through a pregnancy. That is their purpose. They provide supplies, there is a gynecologist who is available on a schedule, they provide living quarters if necessary, they provide help with employment if necessary, they provide counseling and discuss at great length whether the woman/girl wants to keep the baby or give it up for adoption, and they provide whatever preparation is needed for whichever she chooses. To my mind all this IS the help you say we conservatives don't offer along with our pro-life objections to abortion. It's really quite a lot of help. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4443 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
|
Faith writes: Your stuff sounds like fake news to me, propaganda to discredit these services. What, you found ONE such service somewhere so that tars all of them? there must be thousands of them across the country. This sounds exactly like the Bullshit I hear being spread about Planned Parenthood.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
According to the bible, God is actually hugely in favor of infanticide. There's at least 20 separate verses defending the practice and a few where God actually delights in it.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Yip. According to lots of versions of Jewish and Christian Holy Books Spookie ordered them to get rid of unborns and their mothers at the same time. Spookie and then the same Spookies ordered it again later.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Is it a human being or not?
A different question is, "Should it be permissible to kill it?" We ban killing of some things that aren't human beings. It's forbidden to butcher your dog, for instance, or shoot a horse that is healthy. But where do we stand on the nine month journey from conception to birth? If an egg cell and a sperm cell are combined in a petri dish, is the result a human being with the same rights as a one-year-old toddler? Is a nine-month gestation fetus merely a mass of tissue devoid of any rights it might have an hour later after its birth? Does a fetus at five months gestation deserve more or less protection by the law than your pet cat? Here's another question. Suppose you were introduced to Sandy, an adult human being who suffered from a terminal illness that could be cured by hooking Sandy's circulatory system up to a healthy individual's circulatory system for nine months (I think there was a Star Trek episode where Spock had to save his father's life by a similar method). Suppose the day after meeting Sandy you wake up in a hospital hooked up to Sandy through a machine. The doctors tell you there is no alternative. Nobody else but you can keep Sandy from dying (You have some kind of special blood type, like Spock). If there's a possibility of damage to you, they promise they'll halt the procedure and you can go home, but otherwise you're stuck. For some reason, however, they leave the switch to the machine in your reach. Do you have the right to flip the switch to OFF?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hi, Sarah.
Have you read Peter Singer? Your example is right out of Practical Ethics, where Singer promotes his version of utilitarian ethics. If a person hasn't really thought about a systemic philosophy of ethics, then I recommend Singer's book as a good starting point.
Do you have the right to flip the switch to OFF? But utilitarianism isn't the end-all and be-all of ethics. I, myself, am not a utilitarian, so I would answer: no person is morally obligated to leave the swith ON. - Good question to ask the pro- life crowd, though.If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 622 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Interesting.
Do we have a moral obligation to provide for the poor? Do we have a moral obligation to remedy the lingering ill-effects of segregation? Is there a moral obligation to throw a life preserver to a swimmer in distress? I'm not talking about a matter of law, of course, but a matter of morals.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024