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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 556 of 1385 (851401)
04-24-2019 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 492 by Tangle
04-14-2019 3:37 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tangle writes:
Yeh, science would just think it was magic how everything worked without any coherent theory about anything, from radioactive decay, disease to stellar movements.
Your straw-man unwittingly raises a pertinent point - believing life on earth is 6000 years old would certainly contradict the science surrounding radioactive decay. But as for the study of disease and stellar movements, I can't see how such a belief would affect them in any way.
What did surprise me was how many religionists are still YECs.
How many religionists are still YECs? In the Catholic Church (population 1.2 billion), there seems to be relatively few. YECs probably represent only a small (vocal) minority of religionists.
PE is an observation.
Er, no ... you're confused ... PE is a theory that attempts to explain an observation. PE is also an untestable theory, and is therefore nothing more than a pseudo-scientific story.
Well now we have it. H. sapiens did not evolve, he was placed here whole by a (Christian) God. Great, now show your workings.
Too easy! The genealogies from the first humans are recorded in the Bible (an historical document) - from which it can be calculated that man was created less than 10,000 years ago.
And while you're at it, explain why H. Sapiens have been dated at c200,000 yo.
Homo sapiens have been dated as 200, 000 years old? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Deary me ... the delusions and nonsense you evolutionists are forced to come up with!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2019 3:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by Tangle, posted 04-24-2019 3:36 AM Dredge has replied
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 Message 569 by edge, posted 04-24-2019 9:59 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 572 by AZPaul3, posted 04-24-2019 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 557 of 1385 (851402)
04-24-2019 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by edge
04-14-2019 11:14 AM


edge writes:
UCA is not useful to you so it is not useful to you. That makes sense.
The theory of common descent certainly offers me no practical use, but the OP asks if the ToCD offers any practical use to applied science - so far none have come to light.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by edge, posted 04-14-2019 11:14 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by Stile, posted 04-24-2019 8:23 AM Dredge has replied
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 558 of 1385 (851403)
04-24-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by Theodoric
04-14-2019 6:16 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Theodoric writes:
Then this thread needs to be closed. You admit you are not discussing science. If you want to continue this discussion it needs to move to the faith forums, it does not belong in the science forums
The OP concerns only science. By asking me for a practical use for a religious belief you are going beyond the bounds of science.
because no matter how much science is presented you will just dismiss because of your religious beliefs.
Not true. Scientific evidence of an old earth was presented to me (on another site) and I eventually accepted it ... which forced me to radically reinterpret the Biblical accounts of creation.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 559 of 1385 (851404)
04-24-2019 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by edge
04-15-2019 8:45 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
edge writes:
But the modern theory of evolution predicts that there will be explainable gaps in the fossil record.
In that case, it's failed. ToE can't explain the Cambrian explosion, for starters. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your atheist belief system (aka evolution) is contradicted by the evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by edge, posted 04-15-2019 8:45 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 563 by JonF, posted 04-24-2019 8:32 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 565 by FLRW, posted 04-24-2019 9:23 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 568 by edge, posted 04-24-2019 9:49 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 560 of 1385 (851405)
04-24-2019 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 510 by Tanypteryx
04-15-2019 12:31 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
What specific evidence confirms that any gaps in the fossil record are scientifically inexplicable?
Exhibit A: Most (if not all) of the novel organisms that appear during the Cambrian explosion have no fossil ancestors. Sorry to deliver the depressing news.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-15-2019 12:31 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 571 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-24-2019 11:33 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.4


(2)
Message 561 of 1385 (851406)
04-24-2019 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 556 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:27 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
The genealogies from the first humans are recorded in the Bible (an historical document) - from which it can be calculated that man was created less than 10,000 years ago.
It strikes me that you've got the worst of all possible positions here. You tell us that you accept that the earth and the creatures in it are millions of years old and that you accept evolution. Or at least some bits of it that you ad hoc prefer.
Then you tell us that man himself is less than 10,000 years old and you know that by adding up mythical bible story characters' ages. The earth and all the organisms on it is old but man is young and presumably did not evolve, but was created.
It's hard to unpick this mess but it strikes me that you must therefore think that Adam and Eve were real and Noah and his Flood happened. So all modern animals evolved in the last 4,000 years? And all humans came from Noah's family? And all those human fossils and descendants are imaginary?
God knows why you're confusing yourself with niche arguments about what happened in the Cambrian.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:27 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member (Idle past 295 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(5)
Message 562 of 1385 (851408)
04-24-2019 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 557 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:34 AM


Dredge writes:
but the OP asks if the ToCD offers any practical use to applied science - so far none have come to light.
Fifth time: "medicine."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:34 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 586 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:42 AM Stile has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 563 of 1385 (851409)
04-24-2019 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 559 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:46 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
ToE can't explain the Cambrian explosion, for starters.
Prove it. Proving a negative is always good for a laugh.
Whoopsie,, we have an explanation. There's a big difference between "have no explanation" and "have an explanation an ignoramus dislikes".

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JonF
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 564 of 1385 (851410)
04-24-2019 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 560 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:49 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
And, given that soft bodies don't fossilize well, so what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 560 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:49 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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FLRW
Member (Idle past 728 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 10-08-2007


(3)
Message 565 of 1385 (851411)
04-24-2019 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 559 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:46 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Recent research suggests that the period prior to the Cambrian explosion saw the gradual evolution of a "genetic tool kit" of genes that govern developmental processes. Once assembled, this genetic tool kit enabled an unprecedented period of evolutionary experimentation -- and competition. Many forms seen in the fossil record of the Cambrian disappeared without trace. Once the body plans that proved most successful came to dominate the biosphere, evolution never had such a free hand again, and evolutionary change was limited to relatively minor tinkering with the body plans that already existed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 559 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:46 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 566 of 1385 (851412)
04-24-2019 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 556 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:27 AM


More preaching no actual argument
The genealogies from the first humans are recorded in the Bible (an historical document) - from which it can be calculated that man was created less than 10,000 years ago.
This is a science forum. If you want to make a faith based argument you need to move this to a faith forum. We have plenty of those.
BTW- your bible is not a historical document. This is off topic. If you want to discuss, open a thread in the Faith forums.
Admin- Really? Is it not obvious that Dredge has no interest in any science based explanation. All he is going to do is hand wave it away with a reference to some book he believes has magical secrets. According to the rules of this site, this thread needs to be shut down.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:27 AM Dredge has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1958 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 567 of 1385 (851414)
04-24-2019 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 557 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:34 AM


The theory of common descent certainly offers me no practical use, but the OP asks if the ToCD offers any practical use to applied science - so far none have come to light.
Fine, common descent is not useful to you, nor in the area of your choosing. Other people find it useful in their areas of interest.
Thank you for your opinion. What is going to be your next revelation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:34 AM Dredge has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1958 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 568 of 1385 (851415)
04-24-2019 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 559 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:46 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
In that case, it's failed. ToE can't explain the Cambrian explosion, for starters.
Except that even Darwin had an explanation a century and a half ago. That basic explanation still stands.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your atheist belief system (aka evolution) is contradicted by the evidence.
Another argument by assertion. Your opinion is noted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 559 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:46 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by Dredge, posted 05-01-2019 1:09 AM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1958 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(4)
Message 569 of 1385 (851417)
04-24-2019 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 556 by Dredge
04-24-2019 1:27 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Homo sapiens have been dated as 200, 000 years old? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Deary me ... the delusions and nonsense you evolutionists are forced to come up with!
Now there's a cogent argument!
I'm sure that everyone here is now convinced. Why have you held back such profound reasoning till now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:27 AM Dredge has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 6076
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 570 of 1385 (851422)
04-24-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Tangle
04-24-2019 3:36 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
So all modern animals evolved in the last 4,000 years?
No, the YEC model, combined with the evidence, deprives all that extremely rapid evolution of even that much time.
Jean Léopold Nicolas Frédéric, Baron Cuvier (1769 - 1832), AKA "The Founding Father of Paleontology", developed the practice of extrapolating information about an organism based on a few pieces. He was also a staunch opponent of evolution (being before Darwin, evolution in his time was mostly Lamarckian). A young-earther (a default position at the time), his examination of a wide variety of Egyptian mummies brought back by Napoleon, including many animal mummies, revealed no anatomical difference between ancient (c. 1000 BCE) and modern species. He interpreted that to be evidence against evolution, but that would only be the case within a young-earth time framework.
You would allow YECs a 4,000-year window for their ridiculously extreme rates of evolution, but Cuvier reduces that down to 1,000 years at most.
And all humans came from Noah's family?
Since he's now come out explicitly as a YEC, I'm waiting for him to make that standard bunny-blunder claim. I'm sure that he'll revert to standard YEC behavior and avoid presenting any evidence to support YEC.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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