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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 541 of 1385 (851215)
04-20-2019 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by edge
04-20-2019 10:54 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that completely contradicts yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by edge, posted 04-20-2019 10:54 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by edge, posted 04-21-2019 10:49 AM Faith has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1955 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 542 of 1385 (851236)
04-21-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 541 by Faith
04-20-2019 11:59 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that completely contradicts yours.
Well, that's false expectation.
I do not have any problem with hare-brained, unsupported ideas that contradict my own. They are feeble and will die a natural death.
On the other hand, I do not have a problem with valid ideas that contradict mine either. I can accept progress and do not live in a permanent intellectual box defined by religious myth.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 11:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:16 PM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 543 of 1385 (851239)
04-21-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by edge
04-21-2019 10:49 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
So let me see if I can be clearer:
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that proves the ToE is false and completely contradicts the notion of time periods in Geology.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by edge, posted 04-21-2019 10:49 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 544 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 12:21 PM Faith has replied
 Message 546 by Tangle, posted 04-21-2019 12:35 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 547 by edge, posted 04-21-2019 12:47 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 549 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2019 1:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 544 of 1385 (851240)
04-21-2019 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
If it were well supported by evidence, no problem.
Your ideas don't fit that classification, no matter how often you claim to have evidence. The devil is in the details.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 545 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:26 PM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 545 of 1385 (851242)
04-21-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 544 by JonF
04-21-2019 12:21 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
That's false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 12:21 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 1:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 546 of 1385 (851243)
04-21-2019 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that proves the ToE is false and completely contradicts the notion of time periods in Geology.
After all this time, you still don't get it.
If something was discovered that completely contradicted the ToE and/or geological time periods it would be enormously exciting to all scientists. Scientists *want* to prove stuff wrong, it would make their careers. It would open up massive new areas of research.
Unfortunately though the evidence supporting the theories is now so overwhelming that it is vanishingly unlikely that anything material will be found to change the core theories - though they will almost certainly be modified.
Science is not immutable, it's not a religious belief. That seems difficult for you guys to understand no matter what we say.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1955 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 547 of 1385 (851244)
04-21-2019 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
So let me see if I can be clearer:
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that proves the ToE is false and completely contradicts the notion of time periods in Geology.
Nonsense. If there were a better explanation of all the evidence I would have no problem accepting a contradictory idea.
Your telling me that something is better does not meet that requirement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 548 of 1385 (851246)
04-21-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:26 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Content-free as usual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1654 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 549 of 1385 (851248)
04-21-2019 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory: debunks kinds
So let me see if I can be clearer:
What I would expect you to have trouble with is an idea that proves the ToE is false and completely contradicts the notion of time periods in Geology.
Curiously, ideas are spectacularly inadequate at disproving scientific theories.
What you need (and are lacking) are facts or conclusions based on objective empirical evidence.
Preordaining that trilobites are one kind, for instance, ignores the facts and objective empirical evidence.
A "practical use for Universal Common Ancestor" is that it shows that "kinds" are completely inadequate in explaining the full diversity of life, and that people shouldn't waste their (and other people's) time on making them up. Time better spent learning actual science.
Such fun.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 661 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 550 of 1385 (851250)
04-21-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:
I've explained it many times.
You haven't answeted my question: How is it even possible for there to be a "barrier" in the genome when the DNA of every species is made from the same building blocks. What is it exactly that prevents exchanging one block for another? What prevents editing "cat" to "dog"?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 551 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 551 of 1385 (851253)
04-21-2019 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by ringo
04-21-2019 1:44 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
I've defined it functionally many times as exemplified by how breeds of, say, dogs, run out of variability the closer they get to being purebred. But you also can't find alleles/genes in the genome of a species for features outside the species: Is there an allele for a flat black chimp nose in the human genome?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by ringo, posted 04-21-2019 1:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 552 by ringo, posted 04-21-2019 2:03 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 553 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 2:06 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 554 by AZPaul3, posted 04-21-2019 6:31 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 596 by caffeine, posted 04-28-2019 1:00 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 661 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 552 of 1385 (851257)
04-21-2019 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:53 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:
I've defined it functionally many times as exemplified by how breeds of, say, dogs, run out of variability the closer they get to being purebred.
That doesn't answer the question. What is the barrier?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 417 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 553 of 1385 (851258)
04-21-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:53 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Yes.
They are expressed differently in humans and chimps, but they are the same genes.
quote:
In particular, the researchers found that two genes, PAX3 and PAX7, known to affect snout length and shape in laboratory mice, as well as skin pigmentation, were expressed at higher levels in chimpanzees than in humans. Humans with less than the normal amount of PAX3 have a condition called Waardenburg syndrome, which includes craniofacial, auditory and pigmentation defects. Genomewide association studies in humans have identified PAX3 as a region involved in normal facial variation.
If we want to understand what makes human and chimp faces different, we have to look to the source ” to the cell types responsible for making these early patterning decisions.
In contrast, another gene known to be involved in determining the shape of the beaks of finches and the jaw of a fish called a cichlid was expressed at higher levels in humans than in chimpanzees. In mice, overexpression of this gene, BMP4, in cranial neural crest cells causes a marked change in face shape, including a rounding of the skull and eyes that are more near the front of the face.
Scientists home in on origin of human, chimpanzee facial differences | News Center | Stanford Medicine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 7.0


(2)
Message 554 of 1385 (851270)
04-21-2019 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by Faith
04-21-2019 1:53 PM


Inactive?
Sincerely, M'Lady, a gentle suggestion.
This "Inactive Member" stuff is your emotional flag of disapproval at the way you perceive your treatment in this community. It is not a fact, or true, or whatever term you care to use. It is blatantly false.
Everyone here knows you are not inactive. Hell, even the lurkers know you are not inactive. Why persist in this falsehood? Is reality so foreign to you even this status designation needs to be a lie?
If it makes you emotionally comfortable I suppose I have to accept that, but, given your penchant to believe and voice ... um ... contrary opinions, false/incomplete info, bogus processes ... this "Inactive Member" stuff is not doing your reputation any favors. It is just another lie.
You don't need that.
I suggest you come back to the fold officially, publicly, which in reality you never left, and stop with this most obvious falsehood.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 1:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 293 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 555 of 1385 (851286)
04-22-2019 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by Dredge
04-19-2019 3:29 AM


Dredge writes:
More nonsense. Your logic fails - it's not necessary to accept that "all life is connected" in order to accept that "life evolves from previous life". For example, one can breed a sheep dog from a wolf without accepting that all life shares a common ancestor (or even being aware of such a concept).
Let me get this straight.
You're saying you "don't have to accept that life comes from a common ancestor" by breeding a sheep dog from a wolf - proving that the sheep dog has a wolf as a common ancestor?
Sure, buddy - whatever you say.
Keep plugging those ears and screaming you don't believe.
No, really - it's working. Keep it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Dredge, posted 04-19-2019 3:29 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 584 by Dredge, posted 04-28-2019 2:34 AM Stile has replied

  
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