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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 898 of 948 (844128)
11-25-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 897 by ringo
11-25-2018 1:54 PM


Trolls and Truthseekers Unite!
well it is true that he is trolling us a bit...he just likes to make himself feel better by attacking our views...but I noticed that he did ask about the topic originator...which shows some empathy on his part...more than what any garden variety troll would show. One wonders if either side in these discussions ever reads what the other side reads. I know that you do, ringo. You know the Bible better than many.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:54 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 899 of 948 (844130)
11-25-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 896 by Tangle
11-25-2018 1:45 PM


Re: Confusing
His presence is not separable from his posts - I won't call them arguments, they're pure ignorant, trolling drivel.
I can't respect anyone who behaves as disingenuously and stupidly as this.
Note that he showed empathy in post 891. Perhaps he has a smidgeon of Spirit in him apart from the boredom that spurs him to argue pointlessly with us. Besides...respect him simply for being human and choosing to come here. If you simply club all of the trolls out of existence, you end up with no converts.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 896 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2018 1:45 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 900 of 948 (844131)
11-25-2018 2:08 PM


Reminding Everyone Of The Original Topic
The young Universe position is logically on a weaker footing than an old Universe stance.
The YEC arguments base themselves as providing an alternative explanation for old Universe evidence.
They do not provide any 'facts' that categorically prove a young Universe, just supposed new interpretations that allow for a young Universe.
This being said, you only have to provide a single example of an old Universe that cannot be argued with and, ergo, you have falsified the young Universe position.
As I see it, there can be no way around the older Universe interpretation of the distance to supernova 1987A.
And I am talking about the GEOMETRICAL method of calculating the distance. This doesn't involve anything like standard candles, or relativistic redshifts but on good old trigonometry. (I do hope the YEC's accept trig.)
No way of varying the speed of light (one of the lamest concepts in YECdom) will at the same time explain this supernova being nearby and yet not changing the observed radioactive decay rates of the nickel and cobalt from the explosion.
This, and I stress, GEOMETRICAL distance gives a value of approx. 170,000 light years. No if's and's or but's about it.
Therfore, this supernova occurred 170,000 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And again, let me repeat, no tinkering with the light speed can get around this method of getting the distance whilst preserving the radioactive decay observations.
Thus we have a piece of evidence that directly FALSIFIES a less than 10,000 year old Universe. Now I accept that this on it's own doesn't give a 13.7 billion year old Universe, BUT it does the job with respect to falsifying creation being some 6-10 thousand years ago.
Comments?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 904 of 948 (844217)
11-26-2018 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 903 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 3:50 PM


Re: Confusing
Faith seems to think that once a believer chooses to take a leap of faith and surrender their mind to the Spirit, the confusion clears and becomes evident. creation, do you feel this way or do you agree with the timed honored scientific discipline of evidence?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 903 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 3:50 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 906 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 7:59 PM Phat has replied
 Message 915 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 905 of 948 (844218)
11-26-2018 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 901 by creation
11-26-2018 1:17 PM


Re: Confusing
creation writes:
If ideas are revealed to be false, people can change ideas, regardless of the beliefs and ideas they once had...one hopes.
To be fair, does this apply to creationists as well as science-based evolutionists?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:17 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 914 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 907 of 948 (844220)
11-26-2018 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 902 by creation
11-26-2018 1:21 PM


Two Questions
creation writes:
Of course God set it up so man could see stars. They are made for us to see!
Do you believe that God created the entire universe for us to see? Are we the central focus of Gods plan? Is God out there or is He in here with us? If so, how do we avoid anthropomorphizing God?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:21 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 913 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 908 of 948 (844221)
11-26-2018 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 906 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 7:59 PM


Re: Confusing
to clarify, Faith believes more along these lines....that the evidence follows the conclusion rather than the other way around.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 906 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 7:59 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 909 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:26 PM Phat has replied
 Message 912 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 910 of 948 (844224)
11-26-2018 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 909 by Tanypteryx
11-26-2018 8:26 PM


Re: Confusing
Oops. Im sorry---I thought I was replying to the Lad. My bad.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 909 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:26 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 911 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-26-2018 8:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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