Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 60 (9209 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: Skylink
Post Volume: Total: 919,448 Year: 6,705/9,624 Month: 45/238 Week: 45/22 Day: 12/6 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1 of 1385 (843755)
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


I've been looking for a practical use in applied science for the information that all life on earth evolved from a microbe that existed billions of years ago, but can't find any. It seems to me that the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-21-2018 2:20 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 11-21-2018 2:46 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 5 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 10:18 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 11-21-2018 11:34 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 7 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-21-2018 12:10 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 43 by Pressie, posted 11-22-2018 4:29 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 51 by Stile, posted 11-22-2018 3:00 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 66 by Porkncheese, posted 11-23-2018 8:41 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 67 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 2:03 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 231 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 9:17 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1069 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-25-2019 9:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


(1)
Message 2 of 1385 (843756)
11-21-2018 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Pre-approval comment
I would argue that as we go back in time, any historical event becomes increasing irrelevant to modern times. But it still is information on how things are thought to have become what they are today.
Is there anything relevant and useful in knowing who your grandparents were, say 40 generations back?
Adminnemooseus

Or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 3 of 1385 (843758)
11-21-2018 2:22 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.7


(5)
Message 4 of 1385 (843759)
11-21-2018 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Dredge writes:
It seems to me that the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.
Perhaps it is, but so what? Is your concen that in unearthing this knowledge it will further undermine a few fundamentalists' beliefs?
Or are you generally against the persuit of knowledge for its own sake?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Dredge, posted 03-06-2019 11:56 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 5 of 1385 (843769)
11-21-2018 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


... the whole Universal Common Ancestor thing is completely irrelevant and useless outside the realm of evolutionary theory.
The theory of evolution has major significance to everything from medicine thru genetics, biology, chemistry, agriculture thru psychology and on, let alone just answering the simple questions of how we are the way we are and what might we expect in the future. Anything that impacts the evolutionary sciences, especially something as significant to the theory as the Universal Common Ancestor proposal, is not irrelevant to all that followed.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 72 by Dredge, posted 03-06-2019 11:54 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 664 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 6 of 1385 (843776)
11-21-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


Dredge writes:
Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Do we really need to know that the world is round? If we thought it was flat, wouldn't we still have figured out how to get from A to B?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Dredge, posted 03-06-2019 11:59 PM ringo has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.8


(3)
Message 7 of 1385 (843783)
11-21-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
11-20-2018 8:07 AM


I've been looking for a practical use in applied science for the information that all life on earth evolved from a microbe that existed billions of years ago, but can't find any.
Have you really? Why?
One of the interesting things about knowledge, it doesn't disappear if you can't find a practical use for it.
Another interesting thing is, when humans study things they learn things that may be practical and things that may not be practical. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.
Scientists are by nature curious and the mysteries of how life works and how life originated are interesting subjects that scientists want to understand. Creationism and religion do not give any useful details, so we have to rely on scientific methods if we want to really understand anything.
If you don't want to know about these things it is pretty easy to ignore. If you want us to stop studying it, all I can say is, piss off.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dredge, posted 11-20-2018 8:07 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Dredge, posted 03-07-2019 12:02 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 8 of 1385 (843787)
11-21-2018 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AZPaul3
11-21-2018 10:18 AM


Name one.
The theory of evolution has major significance to everything from medicine ...
No it doesn't. Name one useful thing medicine has taken from the ToE.
...thru genetics,
Nope. Oh it isn't that you all don't mentally apply the ToE to the sciences, which unfortunately you do, but without any useful application whatever, and in fact it most likely misleads the scientist in ways that may never be detected until it's too late.
...biology,
Name one use. Keep in mind that we know genetic variation is built into each Kind or Species, known as "microevolution."
chemistry,
Name one. See above.
agriculture
Name one. Lots of room here for confusion with genetics which is not the ToE, and with microevolution.
thru psychology
Nothing but weird speculation, nothing at all really useful.
and on, let alone just answering the simple questions of how we are the way we are and what might we expect in the future. Anything that impacts the evolutionary sciences, especially something as significant to the theory as the Universal Common Ancestor proposal, is not irrelevant to all that followed.
Etc etc etc etc etc. You won't be able to name one single actually useful application of the ToE for any of the above. You'll either confuse it with microevolution or with the true knowledge from the science that has nothing to do with the ToE.
Cheers.
abe: Oh, and as for the idea that science may be knowledge for knowledge's sake, the ToE doesn't qualify for that either because it's just an elaborate mental construction that can't be proved, so isn't in fact knowledge at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 12:31 PM Faith has replied
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 11-21-2018 1:26 PM Faith has replied
 Message 76 by Dredge, posted 03-07-2019 12:10 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 129 by Dredge, posted 03-15-2019 12:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 9 of 1385 (843788)
11-21-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:27 PM


Re: Name one.
Sorry. Love. I'm not responding to your crazy today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:32 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 1385 (843789)
11-21-2018 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
11-21-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Name one.
Because you can't. I'm right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 12:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 11-21-2018 12:44 PM Faith has replied
 Message 15 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2018 1:17 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 35 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2018 4:01 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 664 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 11 of 1385 (843792)
11-21-2018 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Name one.
Faith writes:
Because you can't. I'm right.
All you have is denial. No matter how anybody answers you, you'll just deny, deny, deny.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1696 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 12 of 1385 (843795)
11-21-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
11-21-2018 12:44 PM


Re: Name one.
No, whatever you say to demonstrate the usefulness of the ToE to any science, which neither you nor AZ has done, which is of course telling, can be shown to be nothing but mental castle-building because there is no actual usefulness. As I said, you'll either confuse it with what the science itself does actually know completely apart from the ToE, or with the known fact that Species or Kinds do have built in ability to vary but only within the Kind. There is no evidence whatever, just theory and tnothing but theory, that says variation continues beyond the Kind. Perhaps you can at least show some usefulness for the fact of microevolution, I'm not sure.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 11-21-2018 12:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-21-2018 1:02 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 11-21-2018 1:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 68 by edge, posted 11-23-2018 2:09 PM Faith has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.8


(2)
Message 13 of 1385 (843797)
11-21-2018 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:55 PM


Re: Name one.
Knowing that it pisses you off gives me a warm feeling inside.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 664 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 14 of 1385 (843798)
11-21-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:55 PM


Re: Name one.
Scientists can decide for themselves whether or not something is useful to them. They don't need to take your misunderstanding into account.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 1:26 PM ringo has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 15 of 1385 (843801)
11-21-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
11-21-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Name one.
Because you can't. I'm right.
No. Because I don't want to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 11-21-2018 12:32 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 11-21-2018 2:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024