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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Porkncheese Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 198 From: Australia Joined: |
I haven't got the time to lay down an argument to people who lack the reasoning of viewing things from an Agnostics perspective.
Dogma/ˈdɒɡmə/ noun a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. "the dogmas of faith" Bon dia
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I haven't got the time to lay down an argument to people who lack the reasoning of viewing things from an Agnostics perspective. Consider this: being open-minded to ideas/concepts/opinions but skeptical of claims without objective empirical substantiation. Not gullible, and not ruling out those ideas/concepts/opinions. Consider the following decision process:
... what drives people to decide things when you have a lack of evidence and no need to make a decision? (C) would be the agnostic position on any question (like "is there god/s"). Open-minded to consider the possibility, skeptical because of the meager evidence (essentially anecdotal), willing to wait for further information before deciding. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
quote: Wherever Genesis or another part of the bible speaks, He speaks. He talked to Moses and confirmed that things written about the beginning were correct. Jesus talked about heaven so that involves a change from nature as we know it also. All the miracles He did also show He was not limited by nature.
quote:You have never shown what pre 4500 year rings look like. I seem to recall you appealed that we trust in those who looked at them. Besides, you are in no position to say what a ring grown in the former nature would look like. You look at them as if they were grown in this nature. ( I guess technically you do not look at them, you trust others who looked at them)
quote: Nothing in the spectra tells us what time is like there. Science also admits it only sees something like 5% of the universe anyhow!
quote: Emitted here in the fishbowl.
quote:Here in the fishbowl that may be the case. How would you know it was also equal out there before the light got here, where the light exists under our rules and time? If time did not exist how would something TAKE time to decay or...do anything? quote: Fishbowl possibilities. There may be more possibilities out in some unknown space and time that we never conceived of.
quote: Transitions that happen here...transitions that take so much time as time is known and exists here..etc.
quote:Yes, the way we see light and info and the way it comes to have to exist here is unique, of course. quote:Fishbowl identification is great. We can identify what things are like here. Some info I suspect would even tell us something about what is out there, before it got here. For example, the elements we see in the spectra. What else is out there, and how elements exactly exist out there and behave out there and unfold in time out there...well, we don't really know of course. quote:Similarly, what energy state we would see elements in here depends on our fishbowl nature/time/rules etc. quote:How far you have no clue at all, since you need time to exist the same to know distances! quote:What is responsible for shifted light way out in another time and space is not actually known. You assign fishbowl reasons to all things we see from out of the fishbowl! quote:Absurd. Just because something shifts a certain way in fishbowl time and space and laws, does not mean it shifts that way out there. quote:Redshift has meaning here in the fishbowl. That meaning stays here. Trying to assign all redshifted light (or what appears in the fishbowl as redshited light) the fishbowl reasons for shifting is an exercise in belief. quote:How? How does GR deal with what time is? GR deals with the fishbowl. If we see some star of unknown size or distance that has shifted light when it orbits or something, that does not tell us how long the orbit takes, how big anything is how far away...etc etc. quote: Your belief makes tree rings look a certain way to you and everything else. If I looked at a ring that you cannot show us a picture of strangely, from 5000 'years' ago, it would look like a ring to me. I would not have to be biased and obsess over how it had to grow in a year in this nature for no reason!
quote: Rings grown in weeks would not represent years, so your so called correlations and chronologies crumble into absurdity.
quote:Yet you offer king lists that have spirits? You offer tree rings you can't show or demonstrate grew in this nature?? Kids...rebel...revolt intellectually...you have been lied to. Edited by creation, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Some questions:
I need to know what you have found about the existence, measure, and scope of this hypothesis.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Does the Bible mention or imply such a fishbowl? There is no way to know what the bible says about anything because it was written on paper made in this nature with ink made in this nature.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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quote: Wherever Genesis or another part of the bible speaks, He speaks. He talked to Moses and confirmed that things written about the beginning were correct. Jesus talked about heaven so that involves a change from nature as we know it also. All the miracles He did also show He was not limited by nature. So you have no reference to a time when nature changed, no documentation that anything close to what you claim about a change in nature, no objective empirical evidence. All you have is your fantasy based on claims you make about what the bible says. Lots of Babble response with nothing new requires no repeated discussion when you haven't provided squat to substantiate your position and you haven't dealt with the evidence.
Rings grown in weeks would not represent years, ... Correct ... ... Because they would not look like annual years, and you would need several every day (one every 4 minutes) while you have no way to make such rings with sufficient growth pattern to simulate actual annual rings. And this doesn't address the changes in C14 from ring to ring. This is pure escapist fantasy on your part.
... your so called correlations and chronologies crumble into absurdity. And yet you have not shown why or how that happens, all you have done is deny evidence and then post a repeated assertion with nothing new. Fail^2 But it might be a candidate for discussion in a class on escapist fiction. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Science does not lead. It follows. If something is unknown...it is not science. When you do not know...why blame science for leading you there?
As for the fishbowl, that simply refers to the area man knows and has been to even via probes. So basically the solar system and area. Not even a lousy single light DAY away! Ha Edited by creation, : No reason given.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
God is not from this nature and time.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Wrong. The document of Scripture tells us when things started to really be different.
As I deduce things, it was likely at the time of Babel, in the days of Peleg, possibly when he was six years old, which may have been about 107 years after the flood. As for what rings grown is some former unknown nature would look like...sorry, your opinion cannot be based in any fact. Find something you know about and talk about that. Your 'correlations' have been shown to all rest on the concept/belief that this present nature existed all the while. The correlations therefore, obviously are no better than that belief. Edited by creation, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Your 'correlations' have been shown to all rest on the concept/belief that this present nature existed all the while. No they haven't, at least not by you. You are the only person asserting this without a shred of evidence to back it up. It is pure fictional fantasy.
The document of Scripture tells us when things started to really be different. Fiction.
As I deduce things, it was likely at the time of Babel, in the days of Peleg, possibly when he was six years old, which may have been about 107 years after the flood. Fiction.
As for what rings grown is some former unknown nature would look like...sorry, your opinion cannot be based in any fact. some former unknown nature = fiction.
Find something you know about and talk about that. The irony, it burns brightly.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
God is not from this nature and time. Ok, good. Can I quote you?What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
creation writes:
It isn't prophecy. It's history. Creationism is dead. Your false prophesy is of no worth.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Wrong. The document of Scripture tells us when things started to really be different. But you can't find dates and documentation (evidence) of these purported changes ... that make them rather useless in a science thread.
As I deduce things, ... ie - make up.
... it was likely at the time of Babel, in the days of Peleg, possibly when he was six years old, which may have been about 107 years after the flood. This is you making stuff up that is not supported, listing mythological people, places and events that have no evidentiary basis. Like all your assertions.
As for what rings grown is some former unknown nature would look like...sorry, your opinion cannot be based in any fact. Find something you know about and talk about that. Your 'correlations' have been shown to all rest on the concept/belief that this present nature existed all the while. The correlations therefore, obviously are no better than that belief. Your repeated and repeated assertions (nothing new here folks) are not founded on any objective empirical evidence, nor have you demonstrated that there was a former nature, or that the correlations are based on belief rather than observed fact. Fail Your post is another in a line of meaningless babble that accomplishes nothing except to show how bankrupt creationist arguments are and how they are unable to refute science. What we should teach in school is how to learn the facts supported by evidence and how to tell real probability from pure hogwash. You're giving them a prime example of pure hogwash. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
As with so many creationists, your prescriptions for how science should be done would annihilate the whole of science. Just so you can ignore dendrochronology! Really, couldn't you find some way to question the results of dendrochronology that doesn't involve attacking it for being science?
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Show us any so called correlation then, that does not rest on the premise of a same nature in the past? Ha. You lose.
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