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Author | Topic: Gun Control III | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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jar writes: But making really stupid arguments like those Percy has posted recently really don't help. When one has no facts or valid arguments on one's side then one attempts to level the playing field by turning the discussion into a pissing contest. I'm not taking the bait. The fact of the matter is that research shows that the presence of a gun places the people in the vicinity in greater danger, not less. When you walk out of your home with your arsenal then you become a public menace. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: ...it only matters what he does and that he lives in a country that has given him the right to be that watchman based on the responsibility and training that he has invested in it. Much of the country stupidly gives that right to people regardless of the training, competence or quality of their judgment. Self-appointed vigilantes make the country less safe, not more.
Nearly half of people murdered were not at the hands of criminals but of someone they knew.
The law-abiding citizen in the "Before" picture is more likely to find his guns used against family, friends or himself than against any criminal. --Percy
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jar writes:
And a lot of criminals don't kill people. The law-abiding-citizens versus criminals argument is bogus. Absolutely, and a lot of "law-abiding citizens" don't kill people.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: but you never answered my questions.why do you carry so much ammunition? Because I want to.
Phat writes: do you see yourself as a responsible watchman over society? There you go trying to pretend you have a clue about someone's motives. My motives are irrelevant and you are so bad at guessing you really need to stop. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are of course welcome top that opinion however I doubt you have any facts that include me as evidence.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
ringo writes: And a lot of criminals don't kill people. The law-abiding-citizens versus criminals argument is bogus. I agree. That's one reason I don't use that argument.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Looks as if jar won't discuss his personal feelings on why he should be allowed these rights. Which is fine...I encourage everyone to look at this question from Quora and read a few of the comments afterward...they are from NRA members and former military/police type individuals...and they shed light on rationale: Why do people feel the need to carry a gun if they never intend to shoot anyone with it?
Also a question for Percy:Q: Are you for or against totally disarming the Police? Why or why not? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: Looks as if jar won't discuss his personal feelings on why he should be allowed these rights. He has told us why, apparently it's 'because he wants to.' And he justifies what he does by saying that it is legal for him to do it. His real motivation obviously isn't simply self-defence, he doesn't need all that gear just for that. It presumably makes him feel big, strong and macho carrying all that crap around with him on full display. To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tangle writes: It presumably makes him feel big, strong and macho carrying all that crap around with him on full display. There you go making the same stupid comments as Phat does. But I do support your right to make stupid comments. Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun.
Tangle writes: To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible. Fortunately I am NOT in Europe.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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jar writes: You are of course welcome top that opinion however I doubt you have any facts that include me as evidence. Are you operating under some weird notion that statistics don't apply to you? That the risks of planes, trains, cars and guns don't apply to you? That your descriptions of constant honing of skills, eternal and masterful vigilance, and superior focus on carefulness and safety, are real rather than just vanity and braggadocio? It is not an opinion that the presence of guns makes one less rather than more safe. It is not just a conclusion of research but also of plain old deductive thinking. No guns, probability of injury or death by gun is zero. One or more guns, probability of injury or death by gun is non-zero. Since I'm talking of facts it is important to note that open carry of a gun can act as a deterrent to criminal attack. But the fact remains that a gun is far more likely to be used against oneself, friends or family than against a criminal. Not opinion, just the verdict of research. It is clear from the way you write about them that you like guns because of how they make you feel and not because they are necessary or make you safer. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: Also a question for Percy:Q: Are you for or against totally disarming the Police? Why or why not? Over in the Police Shootings thread I'm on record as saying that rank and file police should not have guns, only special police units. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
jar writes: There you go making the same stupid comments as Phat does. But I do support your right to make stupid comments. Why do you constantly repeat the content-free accusation that the arguments of those discussing with you are stupid? You seem to have no actual data or reasoned arguments?
Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun. You're fooling yourself, always the easiest person to fool.
Tangle writes: To European eyes, it's all utterly bizarre, stupidly dangerous and socially irresponsible. Fortunately I am NOT in Europe. You're again making a content-free response and ignoring the reprehensibility of placing not just yourself but more importantly those around you in greater danger. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: Honestly, the reality is that almost no one even notices that I am carrying a handgun. Two wasn't it? In 'open carry' or whatever the bloody phrase is. Almost no one notices? Like no one notices a personal number plate, red lipstick or a Gucci handbag. Being noticed is really the point isn't it?
Fortunately I am NOT in Europe. If you were in the UK you'd be surrounded by armed police in seconds and spending a few years in jail. That is if you managed to evade the teenagers that would jump you to get their hands on an easy gun - or too. And a year's worth of bullets.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Percy writes: Are you operating under some weird notion that statistics don't apply to you? That the risks of planes, trains, cars and guns don't apply to you? That your descriptions of constant honing of skills, eternal and masterful vigilance, and superior focus on carefulness and safety, are real rather than just vanity and braggadocio? Why yes, Percy, I am. But of course I was also under the impression you were smart enough to realize that statistics apply to populations and not individual events.
Percy writes: It is clear from the way you write about them that you like guns because of how they make you feel and not because they are necessary or make you safer. LOL. Yes, I enjoy building skills. I enjoy the difficulty and responsibility involved.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And you have not shown any evidence that I place anyone else at risk in any manner different than when I drive a car or walk on the street or many other things I do.
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