REMIX: Who Can Be Saved?

If we are to succeed then yes, regardless of whether or not we get any help we need to rise above our innate self-centeredness.

But there is no such thing as a fallen position.

Or a "Just So" story that was meant to explain why people fear snakes, why we had to farm instead of being hunter/gatherers, why childbirth seemed more painful for humans than other animals, why we wear clothes unlike any other animal, why we have a society based on rules and consequences and most importantly why women must be subject to and inferior to men.

But none of those are evidence of anything other than evidence that humans can hold beliefs not based on evidence.

LOLWhere are the tons of witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden?AbE: And witness evidence is the absolute weakest least reliable evidence possible. Further, there are NOT tons of witnesses of any supernatural event.Edited by jar, : see AbE:Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

As I have pointed out in this very thread, my personal beliefs are irrelevant beyond being my personal beliefs. Is there any reason you should be allowed to know my personal beliefs beyond what I have already posted at EvC?If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?

Know what? Certainly I can know what I believe but would that have and reality beyond just knowing what I believe?Does what a person claims to believe have any relevance in whether or not you are influenced by what they claim to believe?Are you more likely to agree with what an atheist points out what is written in Genesis 2&3 or what a believer says in written in Genesis 2&3 or would you actually go read Genesis 2&3 and see for yourself what it says? Can you read Genesis 2&3 and just accept what is actually written or must you filter it through the additional layers of Dogmatic Apologist additions and revisions?

You mistrust anyone that tells you what something means and instead go and read the actual source and see what is actually written. As usual, you are wrong. I say that the Genesis 2&3 story says that we learned right from wrong. Actually the Genesis 2&3 story doesn't tell us anything about what we should do with it which should be yet another clue that that is NOT the only topic. It does go on to list a bunch of things, why we fear snakes, why childbirth seems more painful for women, why we are farmers not hunter gatherers, why we wear clothes instead of just staying naked, why we have a society based on rules and why women should be subject to men. Again, stop trying to say what I believe until you learn how to do it without being constantly wrong. I have asked repeatedly for anyone to provide any evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny and so far no one has ever provided any such evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny. So you will deny reality because you do not like the content of a message. Got it.

That does not change the fact that witness evidence is still about the weakest possible evidence subject to the greatest amount of error.But a bigger issue is included in your assertion itself when you say "Witness evidence is the only possible evidence for this sort of phenomena ...". Why is witness evidence the only possible evidence and if true, why does that not set off alarm bells and warnings that say "Wait, discount this evidence"?In looking at everything else in reality it is possible to find evidence other than witness evidence so what makes you think that something that can only be detected by witness evidence actually exists?

I don't know of anyway including witness testimony that there could be evidence for spiritual or supernatural phenomena. You are the one claiming witness testimony is evidence.And as I have said witness testimony is the least reliable most error prone possible evidence. If you wish to use such pitiful evidence then you must show how it can be of value or relevance. For example how can evidence supporting some Christian God be any more relevant or valuable than the evidence for the Hindu or animist or Greek or Norse Gods? How is anything you post better evidence than "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is His Prophet"?

FUDFear Uncertainty & DoubtIBM and NCR became world powers by selling FUD.