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Author | Topic: R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: A generation of people who deny Jesus Christ as the only way to God....sounds a bit like our do your best arguments here at EvC where we place the responsibility of being a good and honest person and doing your best above the traditional message regarding Christ. And what is the traditional message regarding Christ? Phat, there is no one traditional message regarding Christ; rather there are a host of interpretations held by each Chapter of Club Christian. Or perhaps you mean traditional as what you want it to mean or what your Chapter of Club Christian wants it to mean?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Some say that today's Christians should be genuine enough to walk with people as Jesus once did, but far too few Christians even measure up to the character of Jesus. But according to the testimony found in the Bible Jesus character was not much different than any other human of the period; he had a temper, could be abrupt, self centered, unsure, remorseful, petulant, demanding, unreasonable and selfish.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: so who do you say that the Jesus character was? And how does your answer compliment your understanding and belief in the Nicene Creed? I don't Phat. We've been over that many times before. I do report what the Bible tales say.
Phat writes: Will you conclude that Jesus was a fallible human and nothing more? Does the Creed conclude the same? Yes. While Jesus was alive and and teaching he was a fallible human being and nothing more. Yes, the Creed says the same thing.
Phat writes: As you teach this as your informed opinion on the matter, do you feel good about what you are in fact teaching about Jesus? Yes, I feel very good about what I report since I am reporting what is actually written about Jesus in the Bible.
Phat writes: Aside from the statement that Jesus was made man, does the Creed emphasize His failures and human characteristics? Creeds are short summaries and not detailed reports Phat. Nor did I mention failures.
Phat writes: Is there any particular reason that you have brought this up more than once? Yes, I bring it up because most popular caricatures of Jesus make Jesus the individual pretty much trivial, worthless, pointless, useless, insignificant and picayune.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: the same way the authors of the stories heard of Him. Sorry Phat but that is just silly. How could you hear about Jesus if it were not for the existence of the written stories AND the adoption and forced marketing of Christianity?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The question was "How would you even have heard of Jesus if it had not been for the written stories codified in the Bibles?"
The authors of the stories heard about it locally, they were on site at the times Jesus lived or very shortly after his death. But that was two thousand years ago. How would you even have heard of Jesus if it had not been for the written stories codified in the Bibles?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The same way that Saul encountered Jesus long after He died. And how was that? Do you mean the original version of the story where it was just an voice or one of the later embellished versions? Remember it was not the encounter that taught Saul about Jesus but rather other humans.
Acts 9 writes: 9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. 10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. How could that experience be duplicated today? Without the Bible where could you find Ananias? How is that story different than Mohammud's conversion?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Which could in fact make you close to an atheist. Why is it you have never claimed to be one. Because I am a Christian, raised in a Christian family, educated in a Christian school and a registered member of a recognized Christian sect. It seems reality should be sufficient reason for me to not claim to be an atheist.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: So we are Christians because we claim to be Christians? Are you saying that God has no part in this process? No, someone is a Christian if they belong to one of the Chapters of Club Christian or if the identify as a Christian. God has no greater part in determining a person's "Christianity" then if one is a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Taoist or ...
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes. And Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox...
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I have absolutely no idea if anyone agrees with me and absolutely no idea why that would even be relevant?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What's so funny about Faith's question is the she must at least have an idea that EVERY Mormon and EVERY JW and EVERY Roman Catholic and EVERY Eastern Orthodox and every other sect that claims Christianity would agree with me that they are Christian.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Atheist? OK how about evil? or noble and good? Essentially you have unmasked your belief, jar. That it is we and in no part "He"... Go ahead, ask me what the evidence shows! Because that jury is out. There is no solid evidence in support of your position. Really, no solid evidence Phat? Do Hindus exist? Do Muslims exist? Do Buddhist exist? Do Taoists exist? Do JW and Mormons and Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians and Ethiopian Orthodox Christians and Greek Orthodox Christians and Russian Orthodox Christians and a brazzilion spontaneously created by some "call" (or profit) and not associated with any recognized Christian Sect Christians exist? Religions are 100% human constructs and that includes ALL religions. Noble, evil and good are all human constructs. Every person, every society decides what is evil, noble or good.
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yawn!
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Metaphorically, He confused our languages in Genesis 11 because He was aware that the people...as one...in unity...could achieve ANYTHING. And He knew that if we left GOD out, we would fail. Actually no, that is not what the Bible says Phat. There is nothing in that story even hinting at "And He knew that if we left GOD out, we would fail.". That's all stuff the Apologists added to the story. In the story the God is worried that once they build the tower to the heavens "There goes the neighborhood."
Phat writes: Just because people don't agree on Who or What He is (and does) does not mean that we are collectively creating Him. When every religion and every sect within each religion "don't agree on Who or What He is (and does)" yet each claims to KNOW God; who other than humans are doing the creating?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: What would be so wrong about that? And why do you assert that this "God character" felt threatened? Seems as if you imply that we humans could actually reach Heaven. Yup. the God character felt frightened. Actually that's a pretty common theme. It is the same in Genesis 2&3, the God character is afraid the humans would become just like God so chased them out of the neighborhood and put up signs "No Humans Allowed". It's not what I assert, it's what is actually written and in fact you even quoted.
quote: There's absolutely nothing in the story that even remotely suggests "Metaphorically, He confused our languages in Genesis 11 because He was aware that the people...as one...in unity...could achieve ANYTHING. And He knew that if we left GOD out, we would fail." rather it says that they would succeed unless God stopped them.
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