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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
After attempting to moderate this thread, I feel now as if it is better to do so while still being a participant. I first want to say to Faith that you are being quite honest for a change in explaining your views and everyone else is by and large being cooperative also...allow me to attempt to steer us back on topic by introducing another book to support my observations.
The Righteous Mind Granted this is a book review rather than the actual book, but it addresses some of the questions which Percy raises as he challenges Faith. Some quotes from the review:
quote:Note that Faith started this topic to express the alternative viewpoint as she sees it. quote:Faiths hope is that people might learn by reading Liars Leakers and Liberals: The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy.. I will say that people in this thread...all of you....might learn about Faith's reasoning for creating this thread by reading The Righteous Mind or at least as I did browse the review! So many books...so little time! A few more quotes from the review: quote:Can we not all agree that we all reach conclusions rather quickly but for different reasons? quote: [moderator] Keep respecting each other and attempt to find common ground. Ive given up trying to force the topic to comment only on the book...taming EvC is as hard as taming a wild stallion![/moderator]Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: When he compares a black person to a monkey,... I couldn't find where Trump has done this, but here's stuff from Donald Trump’s Racism: The Definitive List that seems supported by evidence (i.e., not hearsay) and that is specific to blacks (i.e., not Mexicans or Muslims or Haitians or Puerto Ricans or Jews, who he has also attacked):
Here's a couple more from other sources:
--Percy
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of Roseanne Barr. I couldn't find where Trump has done this....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Don't forget to include Trump's claim that Mexican immigrants are predominantly crinimals.
What do you despise? By this are you truly known. -- Frank Herbert
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
In a speech to the VFW yesterday Trump, after speaking out against criticism of his policies, said not to believe what you see or read (long speech, but I've queued this YouTube video up to the exact right spot):
Apparently we should only believe lying, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, dictator loving Trump. This comment is on-topic since it undoubtedly includes criticisms Pirro believes unfair and unprecedented but that can be easily supported. Trump seems to be getting used to using a teleprompter, though I suspect he adlibs quite a bit. If you want to hear Trump lying about the Democratic position on immigration and crime, advance forward to 39:51 where he asserts that Democrats want open borders and crime. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I might comment that we are getting off topic. The topic isnt Trump. It is Liars Leakers and Liberals: The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy.. Perhaps these types of comments are better expressed in the Trump presidential thread. Comments?
Percy writes:
If so, wouldn't it be better to focus on Pirros comments themselves?
This comment is on-topic since it undoubtedly includes criticisms Pirro believes unfair and unprecedented but that can be easily supported.ringo writes: Roseanne Barr is definitely off-topic, not to mention off the wall! Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of Roseanne Barr. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I might comment that we are getting off topic. The topic isn't Trump. It is Liars Leakers and Liberals: The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy.. You say the topic isn't Trump but about a book making the case against the anti-Trump conspiracy. A discussion about this book cannot help but include Trump. It must also include those entities the book charges as responsible for the conspiracy, namely the news media and the Democrats.
Percy writes:
If so, wouldn't it be better to focus on Pirro's comments themselves? This comment is on-topic since it undoubtedly includes criticisms Pirro believes unfair and unprecedented but that can be easily supported. We only have access to chapter one and the first two sections of chapter two. Pirro provides no specific examples of what she claims is happening, so we are forced to fill in the blanks with examples ourselves, since Faith (the only one with a copy of the book) is refusing to provide anything specific herself, in fact, seems to glory in her ignorance of the news that is the supposed expression of the conspiracy. The desire Faith actually expressed in her opening post was to state her beliefs without challenge. She seems to feel that the mere fact of challenging her beliefs is a sign of disrespect. She is in spirit, like her hero, an autocrat. --Percy
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If the book was The Conspiracy to Claim That Elephants Are Big, wouldn't it be reasonable to show that elephants are, in fact, big? If elephants are in fact big, doesn't that rather negate the premise of tbe book? Isn't that actually a pretty important point in discussing the book? The topic isnt Trump.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If the topic is about The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy might it not be wise to first provide the evidence there is some anti-Trump conspiracy?
Wouldn't the way to do that be by providing actual evidence of an anti-Trump conspiracy?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy writes: You say the topic isn't Trump but about a book making the case against the anti-Trump conspiracy. A discussion about this book cannot help but include Trump. It must also include those entities the book charges as responsible for the conspiracy, namely the news media and the Democrats. Point taken, gentlemen. This gets me back to Jonathan Haight. He warns us of what will happen if the Left and the Right don't get along! Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Faith writes: No I don't follow the news. I see headlines on the internet, sometimes I read part of the story. Sometimes I hear it on the car radio when I'm being driven somewhere. I get the basic gist of some things. and I see some of what gets written on the Trump Bashing Thread which makes me sick. I cannot stomach what the Left is doing to him and to the nation, I really can't. I have to shut it out or it will kill me. Do you think that Trump should never be criticized, no matter what he does? After a while, the position you are taking seems really scary. It seems authoritarian. You consider it a conspiracy when the press does its job. If you look at the history of authoritarianism in the 20th and 21st century, the first thing a dictator does is go after the press, and silence them. Dictators can't stand be criticized, and the people who support these dictators also can't stand it. This is the scary stuff that Pirro seems to be pushing, the idea that the Dear Leader can not be questioned. What the Dear Leader says is true, and no one should ever say otherwise. Perhaps this is why Trump likes dictators so much, because he is a bit jealous of the power they hold.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
My position is that there IS a conspiracy to attack Trump against all the rules of journalism and common decency because the majority of journalists are leftist. The "criticism" is so far out of bounds it's ridiculous to ask if I don't want him to be criticized at all: he's criticized incessantly, constantly, in such a way that it is impossibly to ignore how much the press hates ME and all his supporters, but they don't seem to care about that or about anything except imposing their leftist views on the nation. I think it was Pew Research that showed that Trump is getting at least twice the amount of negative press of any other President ever or something like that, even conservative Presidents. Insisting that this is merely what Trump deserves is just leftist blindness.
This idea that we're pushing the idea that Trump "cannot be questioned" is beyond absurd in this political atmosphere. He isn't being "questioned" he's being subjected to slander, fake news, character assassination, taking his words out of context, refusing to give him the slightest benefit of the doubt, spinning everything he says to bring him under the black cloud of Political Correctness. It is so obvious to any conservative who has any contact whatever with the news, what's amazing is that nobody on the left can see it at all. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Faith writes: My position is that there IS a conspiracy to attack Trump against all the rules of journalism and common decency because the majority of journalists are leftist. The "criticism" is so far out of bounds it's ridiculous to ask if I don't want him to be criticized at all: he's criticized incessantly, constantly, in such a way that it is impossibly to itnore how much the press hates ME and all his supporters, but they don't seem to care about that or about anything except imposing their leftist views on the nation. What makes the criticisms out of bounds? Can you give an example? When you appoint your kids to political jobs they are open to the same criticism as any other politician. In the past, the press mostly left family alone because they weren't politicians, they were just citizens. Not so with the Trumps. In fact, most presidents were smart enough to avoid nepotism. Not Trump.
This idea that we're pushing the idea that Trump "cannot be questioned" is beyond absurd in this political atmosphere. He isn't being "questioned" he's being subjected to slander, fake news, character assassination, taking his words out of context, refusing to give him the slightest benefit of the doubt, spinning everything he says to bring him under the black cloud of Political Correctness. It is so obvious to any conservative who has any contact whatever with the news, what's amazing is that nobody on the left can see it at all. That's clearly not true. The accusations made against Trump are backed by facts. It isn't fake news. It is real news. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I can't prove it because anything I point out gets rationalized away as if it's just normal criticism. If you can't SEE that everywhere you turn there is NOTHING BUT attacks on everything from big issues to trivia I'm not going to be able to convince you. The work it would take to exd
plain every little thing that's been spun out of context to mean something negative about Trump would take me hours. All I can do is say conservatives see it, why don't you? You don't seem to understand that FACTS can be spun, that they can be taken out of context, that there have been fake news facts already that have been shown to have been invented. Marc9000 has described this to some extent. Headlines are just about always skewed to give some negative impression that is unnecessary. Over and over some minor personality is reported to have said something negative about Trump as if that person's opinion matters, totally unnecessary and tendentious but probably influential with a lot of people. ANYTHING negative seems to be the journalistic standard these days. Sometimes I wish I could devote my life to trying to prove these things but I've got too many other things to devote my life to and I've learned by sad experience that no matter how much work I put into my arguments nobody here accepts any of it anyway. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Faith writes: I can't prove it because anything I point out gets rationalized away as if it's just normal criticism. If you can't SEE that everywhere you turn there is NOTHING BUT attacks on everything from big issues to trivia I'm not going to be able to convince you. It never occurred to you that there is a lot of criticism because Trump deserves it?
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