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Author | Topic: REMIX: Who Can Be Saved? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
We need to take responsibility for our fellow man because your God doesn't. I won't argue. To me its a bit like when my Dad taught me to ride a two-wheeler. He didn't hold the bike but he was alongside me should it wobble. You may argue that there is no Dad running along beside us so we best learn to steer ourselves. I may argue that I believe He is there...just not doing everything for us.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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ringo Member (Idle past 727 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What ever happened to "free will"?
And why would being "rescued" be against our will? Are we that stubborn that we won't allow Him to help us? Phat writes:
Yes. Is that a bad thing?
Are we so proud that we feel we have outgrown our belief in Him? Phat writes:
Please learn the difference between evidence and belief. Are we so stuck on our own evolved wisdom that we think we need evidence before proceeding with a belief?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Phat writes:
Are we so proud that we feel we have outgrown our belief in Him?ringo writes: Yes. Is that a bad thing? I predict that there will again come a time within human history that will be so challenging and so tough that some will run back to the comfort of belief and in their own mind feel as if they are returning to God. Others will remain convinced that there is no magic bullet and will attempt to put Humpty Dumpty together yet again for another try at doing it ourselves. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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Tangle Member Posts: 9624 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: I predict that there will again come a time within human history that will be so challenging and so tough that some will run back to the comfort of belief and in their own mind feel as if they are returning to God. Others will remain convinced that there is no magic bullet and will attempt to put Humpty Dumpty together yet again for another try at doing it ourselves. Why is it that you Christians are forever forecasting an apocalypse? Why the pessimism? Is it a requirement of Christianity to believe the worst all the time? Despite, in general, things getting overall better.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8705 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Come on, Tangle. Every charlatan and priest knows you can't sell bogeyman insurance without there being an ever present bogeyman. What bigger bogeyman can there be than the immanent threat of Ever-Lasting-DeathTM in the Lake of Fire for those Unsaved?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why is it that you Christians are forever forecasting an apocalypse? Why the pessimism? Because of biblical prophecy of God's judgment coming against the whole planet at the end of time, and these days it looks like it's getting closer by the minute if you know what to look for. Christians do often make the mistake of predicting the time, and that should never be done, but it does look like it's getting closer by the minute. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9624 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: Because of biblical prophecy of God's judgment coming against the whole planet at the end of time, and these days it looks like it's getting closer by the minute if you know what to look for. You people hve been saying that for 2,000 years. And over and over again, you're wrong. Not only that, all the evidence is against you. The general direcTion is improvement. Undeniable improvement in the lives of people.
Christians do often make the mistake of predicting the time, and that should never be done Only because it makes Christians look bloody stupid and utterly wrong, time after time. Because it's factual and ineoscapabably wrong.
but it does look like it's getting closer by the minute. No it doesn't - things are in fact getting better. You're a weird one.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1759 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Things getting better is due to past blessings. Spiritual effects take a long time to run their course which is shown over and over in biblical history. What we see is the increase in hatred of God and His Law and the establishment of laws actually protecting violations of God's Law. The crunch could come all of a sudden.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9624 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: Things getting better is due to past blessings. That's called either a flat out contradiction of your 'everything is getting worse' mantra or an attempt at having your cake and eat it. Actually both.
Spiritual effects take a long time to run their course which is shown over and over in biblical history. What we see over history are improvements in our life and no spiritual effects at all.
What we see is the increase in hatred of God and His Law and the establishment of laws actually protecting violations of God's Law. What we see is people getting on with their lives without worrying about supersticious nonsense. I'm totally unaware of any god hatred; simply god total absence. Like fairies.
The crunch could come all of a sudden. But it seems that no matter how long and how hard you and your predecessors pray for it, it never happens.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 727 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If you're going to use the father analogy - and the Bible uses it so it's hard to escape - you should take it to its logical conclusion. Does the father prop up the son forever? To me its a bit like when my Dad taught me to ride a two-wheeler. He didn't hold the bike but he was alongside me should it wobble.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 727 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's just the old no-atheists-in-foxholes ploy. In fact, I think the opposite is true: In bad times - e.g. war - people are less likely to believe in gods, not more. They are more likely to ask why a god would let such things happen. They might wish there was a god to save them but they don't really believe it will happen. I predict that there will again come a time within human history that will be so challenging and so tough that some will run back to the comfort of belief and in their own mind feel as if they are returning to God.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Does the father prop up the son forever?
As long as my Dad was alive He would have had my back should I ever have needed it. He did not coddle me, but he would never have left me to fend for myself should I have asked for his help.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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ringo Member (Idle past 727 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
This all leads back to Message 13 where you said, "And yet you also insist that humans take responsibility." As long as my Dad was alive He would have had my back should I ever have needed it. He did not coddle me, but he would never have left me to fend for myself should I have asked for his help. Wouldn't your father also insist that you take responsibility?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18706 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Phat writes:
And why would being "rescued" be against our will? Are we that stubborn that we won't allow Him to help us?What ever happened to "free will"? Your whole argument seems to be that even if God is real and loving, you will likely freely reject a relationship/communion with Him. While I agree that it seems unfair that this dooms you (and negates true free will) I again use the analogy of oxygen. One can choose not to breathe it, but it is, in fact, the only gas that will support our life. I never figured out why you are so stubborn in regards to this growing up analogy....you seem to take pride in not needing any help whatsoever. And we all know how bad pride can be.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith ![]()
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ringo Member (Idle past 727 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Unless you can demonstrate that I can't live without your God, that's a poor analogy.
I again use the analogy of oxygen. One can choose not to breathe it, but it is, in fact, the only gas that will support our life. Phat writes:
You could try paying attention to what I have told you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. It isn't that I don't need any help whatsoever. I never figured out why you are so stubborn in regards to this growing up analogy....you seem to take pride in not needing any help whatsoever. It's that I can't count on your God to help me.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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