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Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 668 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 751 of 882 (835214)
06-19-2018 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 746 by ringo
06-19-2018 1:30 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
Noticing someone is fat is a far cry from using that "fact" to diminish the value of that person, especially if there is a past of such a hostile attitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 746 by ringo, posted 06-19-2018 1:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 761 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 3:18 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 429
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 752 of 882 (835223)
06-20-2018 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 737 by Faith
06-19-2018 10:23 AM


I know that the Bible was Spirit-breathed by God...
Well, thank Christ you avoided those "superstitious ideas" the Catholics have.
Self-awareness not really your shtick, is it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 737 by Faith, posted 06-19-2018 10:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 429
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 753 of 882 (835224)
06-20-2018 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 749 by foreveryoung
06-19-2018 7:08 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
...there are valid reasons for people to think that way today.
Show me why you feel that is wrong.
You seem to have missed the whole "burden of proof" thing.
People today believe for precisely the same reason they believed ten thousand years ago: Ignorance and tribalism.
In the spirit of your own post, prove me wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by foreveryoung, posted 06-19-2018 7:08 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 755 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 5:36 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied
 Message 756 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2018 8:47 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 754 of 882 (835228)
06-20-2018 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 749 by foreveryoung
06-19-2018 7:08 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
foreveryoung writes:
Faith's whole conversation is identical to pure works of fantasy like Alice in Wonderland in your mind.
Correct.
You don't seem to be able to fathom how anyone could possibly think that way.
I know how and why people think that way. Luckily, the process that causes it is changing - but it's slow.
My posts to you have been an effort to show you it's not unreasonable for faith to think that way. Not only has it been common among the majority of humans for most of their existence;
Your posts have simply said - as you do again now - that a lot of people have believed something therefore it's reasonable to believe it. Well that's obviously and demonstrably wrong. Must I point to the long list of ridiculous stuff most people have believed that has been proven wrong?
Faith's whole conversation is identical to pure works of fantasy like Alice in Wonderland in your mind. You don't seem to be able to fathom how anyone could possibly think that way. My posts to you have been an effort to show you it's not unreasonable for faith to think that way. Not only has it been common among the majority of humans for most of their existence;there are valid reasons for people to think that way today.
So, what are these reasons?
Show me why you feel that is wrong.
I think you're going to have to be specific, what is it that Faith believes/thinks that you want me to say is wrong - that the earth is 6,000 years old, that Noah and his flood actually happened, that evolution didn't produce species, that homosexuality is an abomination, that school teachers should be armed with guns, that pretty much all science from cosmology through biology and geology is wrong, that anything that contradicts her belief is wrong, that the pope is the antichrist and that demons are real? Really?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by foreveryoung, posted 06-19-2018 7:08 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1530 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 755 of 882 (835234)
06-20-2018 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 753 by Capt Stormfield
06-20-2018 12:53 AM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
People today believe for precisely the same reason they believed ten thousand years ago: Ignorance and tribalism.
I think that probably describes YOUR belief in what you are saying here, but it doesn't describe belief in Christ or the God of the Bible or other revelations in the Bibgle.
In the spirit of your own post, prove me wrong.
Perhaps foreveryoung will answer you, but what I'd say is that the Biblical account of the spread of belief in Christ shows a lot of resistance to it. Those who believed were in the tens of thousands among the Jews before it went out to the Gentiles, but that was only a small part of the Jewish population. "Ignorance and tribalism" hardly describe the persuasion of the many who did believe, especially considering that you immediately became a target of both the Jews and the Roman Caesars. All the original twelve apostles died for their belief at the hands of persecutors. In some parts of the world today Christianity continues to spread despite similar persecution. There are millions of Chinese Christians now despite the hostility of the Communist regime, and many Muslims who convert have to consciously decide it's worth losing their lives when they do so.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 753 by Capt Stormfield, posted 06-20-2018 12:53 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 668 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 756 of 882 (835243)
06-20-2018 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 753 by Capt Stormfield
06-20-2018 12:53 AM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
You seem to have missed the whole "burden of proof" thing
Uhhhhh....no
The burden of proof is on you.
You and your buddie tangle are equating belief in something higher than themselves with a fantasy like Alice in wonderland.
That's a specific claim bucko.
Now, get off your ass and prove your claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 753 by Capt Stormfield, posted 06-20-2018 12:53 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 757 by jar, posted 06-20-2018 9:16 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 758 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2018 10:11 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34063
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 757 of 882 (835244)
06-20-2018 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 756 by foreveryoung
06-20-2018 8:47 AM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
It is you who miss the point.
You assert that something exists thus you need to provide evidence that what you exerts actually exists. The reality is that your belief really is no different than a belief that unicorns exist.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 756 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2018 8:47 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 758 of 882 (835249)
06-20-2018 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 756 by foreveryoung
06-20-2018 8:47 AM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
foreveryoung writes:
You and your buddie tangle are equating belief in something higher than themselves with a fantasy like Alice in wonderland.
That's a specific claim bucko.
Now, get off your ass and prove your claim.
Yes, the claim is that your belief in invisible, mythical beings (gods) is the same as a belief in other invisible, mythical beings (elves, fairies, leprechauns, trolls, ents, mad hatters, demons, unicorns, gobblins etc etc etc).
The proof is an obvious one, if you can produce your invisible being, I'm wrong.
If you can't the claim stands.
The default position is that because we have no evidence for a god and have seen thousands of gods disapear without trace because they too were man-made inventions, no gods exists.
The positive claim is that god exists, so if anyone is going to be convinced by that they're going to need the evidence. That's the way it works, the guy claiming something is real, needs to demonstrate that it's real. The same applies to fairies, elves, goblins.........

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 756 by foreveryoung, posted 06-20-2018 8:47 AM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 760 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 3:17 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 759 of 882 (835252)
06-20-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 750 by foreveryoung
06-19-2018 7:18 PM


foreveryoung writes:
Hostility is the reason people call other people fat in most cases.
When your doctor tells you to lose a few pounds, he isn't being hostile; he's being helpful.
foreveryoung writes:
It's reasonable for faith to assume you are representative of the vast majority.
Jumping to conclusions isn't reasonable.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 750 by foreveryoung, posted 06-19-2018 7:18 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1530 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 760 of 882 (835253)
06-20-2018 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 758 by Tangle
06-20-2018 10:11 AM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
Yes, the claim is that your belief in invisible, mythical beings (gods) is the same as a belief in other invisible, mythical beings (elves, fairies, leprechauns, trolls, ents, mad hatters, demons, unicorns, gobblins etc etc etc).
The proof is an obvious one, if you can produce your invisible being, I'm wrong.
How would you suggest one go about proving the existence of invisible beings? Actually I'm sure you have a few watching you this very minute but they wouldn't want to blow their cover with you since it benefits them not to be believed in.
The positive claim is that god exists, so if anyone is going to be convinced by that they're going to need the evidence. That's the way it works, the guy claiming something is real, needs to demonstrate that it's real. The same applies to fairies, elves, goblins.........
Sometimes a person just has to respect the claims of other human beings who describe their experiences of God and some of those other creatures you mention. The real experiences don't sound like fiction by the way, and even you could tell the difference if you'd stop and think about it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 758 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2018 10:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 762 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2018 4:41 PM Faith has replied
 Message 764 by ringo, posted 06-20-2018 4:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 761 of 882 (835254)
06-20-2018 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 751 by foreveryoung
06-19-2018 7:20 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
foreveryoung writes:
Noticing someone is fat is a far cry from using that "fact" to diminish the value of that person...
Pointing out that somebody is wrong doesn't diminish their value.
foreveryoung writes:
... especially if there is a past of such a hostile attitude.
If you check your facts you'll find that Faith has been hostile toward me - and almost everybody else on this forum - and you'll find that my response to her is usually pretty civil in comparison.
Edited by ringo, : spellinge

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 751 by foreveryoung, posted 06-19-2018 7:20 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 762 of 882 (835262)
06-20-2018 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 760 by Faith
06-20-2018 3:17 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
Faith writes:
How would you suggest one go about proving the existence of invisible beings?
That's not my problem.
Actually I'm sure you have a few watching you this very minute but they wouldn't want to blow their cover with you since it benefits them not to be believed in.
I guess you think that's a quite resonable thing to say. Doesn't sound at all bonkers.
Sometimes a person just has to respect the claims of other human beings who describe their experiences of God and some of those other creatures you mention.
The people who have to do that are called psychiatrists.
The real experiences don't sound like fiction by the way, and even you could tell the difference if you'd stop and think about it.
What real experiences?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 3:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 763 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 4:46 PM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1530 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 763 of 882 (835263)
06-20-2018 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 762 by Tangle
06-20-2018 4:41 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
How would you suggest one go about proving the existence of invisible beings?
That's not my problem.
No, but if you insist it be proved and you know it can't be you're being a little, shall we say, disingenuous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 762 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2018 4:41 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 765 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2018 5:12 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 764 of 882 (835265)
06-20-2018 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 760 by Faith
06-20-2018 3:17 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
Faith writes:
How would you suggest one go about proving the existence of invisible beings? Actually I'm sure you have a few watching you this very minute but they wouldn't want to blow their cover with you since it benefits them not to be believed in.
I can only guess that you're talking about demons. Of course it would also apply to your God. How does it benefit Him to not be believed in?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 3:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 765 of 882 (835267)
06-20-2018 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 763 by Faith
06-20-2018 4:46 PM


Re: Empathy and epigentics
Faith writes:
No, but if you insist it be proved and you know it can't be you're being a little, shall we say, disingenuous.
*I* know it can't be, but you tell me it true. So we have an impasse.
I need a really good reason to believe something utterly preposterous. You can't provide it so ....

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 763 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 4:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 766 by Faith, posted 06-20-2018 5:28 PM Tangle has replied

  
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