The spectacular fall of YEC beliefs

Nope, those are ad-hominem-fodder questions.

Those are links, not evidence in your own words.

Ibn Khaldun (/ˈɪbən klˈduːn/; Arabic: أبو زيد عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن خلدون الحضرمي‎, Abū Zayd ‘Abd ar-Raḥmān ibn Muḥammad ibn Khaldūn al-Ḥaḍramī; 27 May 1332 — 17 March 1406) was an Arab historiographer and historian.[8] He is claimed as a forerunner of the modern disciplines of historiography, sociology, economics, and demography.[n 1][9][n 2]He is best known for his book, the Muqaddimah or Prolegomena ("Introduction"). The book influenced 17th-century Ottoman historians like Ktip elebi, Ahmed Cevdet Pasha and Mustafa Naima who used the theories in the book to analyze the growth and decline of the Ottoman Empire.[10] 19th-century European scholars also acknowledged the significance of the book and considered Ibn Khaldun as one of the greatest philosophers of the Middle Ages.[11]From Wiki

Then we're forced to form our own conclusions......

Not necessarily. Civilized people extend the benefit of the doubt and know that ad hominems are bad form.

And that has what to do with the promotion of universal literacy and general education?

You really are ignorant of what evidence is. Amazing.My own words are not evidence, the reality that the words point to is the evidence Faith.Basics.Edited by jar, : appaling spallin

"Millennium" is the singular.Without Christianity there would have been no secular UK. You'd still be a bunch of warring tribes, some gallivanting around in body paint, some worshiping the sun at Stonehenge, performing witchcraft, celebrating Samhain by propitiating the Aos Si, the pagan gods etc. Perhaps you'd have enjoyed that more than civilization though. Guess what, I think you might eventually get a chance somewhat along those lines....Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Your words could STATE the evidence. The links aren't going to be much in the way of evidence anyway.

LOLSheesh you sure love being ignorant don't you.This started because I stated the facts but you asked for more support for those statements. I provided the links that supported what I originally stated. If you wish to remain utterly ignorant you will succeed in being utterly ignorant; of read the information provided in the links.Or maybe even learn very basic world history.Back to the beginning just for Faith:In Message 66 I posted:

quote:

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You do realize that there is a difference between Harvard University and Harvard Divinity School? While the Divinity School is certainly part of the University it is only one part.

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You do understand that education in the West was simply trying to catch up to the general education level found in the rest of the world, particularly the Muslim, Taoist, Buddhist nations?

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You seemed to doubt at least the second of those facts so I provided the evidence to show that the Christian West far from driving general education was in fact simply trying to catch up to the rest of the world.The evidence is that at the time the Christian West was in the Dark Ages and long before Christianity even existed there were societies with advanced education and learning institutions. There are even many examples of general literacy among civilizations that preceded Christianity.Edited by jar, : see back to beginning

I can see this argument from multiple perspectives. Allow me to comment on a few, speaking from what jar would call the dogma of the cult. Faiths position here presupposes the idea that humans were lost before God so loved the world that He gave us ..His Son. From Faith's perspective, she was well respected by intellectuals and cultural wisdom but became enlightened through her salvation epiphany.This belief drives her concept of evidence in everything. The evidence is based on Gods way of doing things and His Spirit. jar believes that though GOD exists, GOD is the reality and does not favor humans, as the religion (and Bible) taught. jar essentially believes that we are charged to use our GOD given brains to study, learn, and figure out the reality for ourselves. Faith believes that GOD is knowable through Jesus Christ, through whom all was created...exactly how the book(Bible) tells it.Any efforts by jar to teach her reality and history are refused because Faith believes that human wisdom without Gods enlightenment is naturally corrupt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont you believe that jar does not really understand the Spirit behind the Bible? That though he may read it literally, he remains ignorant of the GOD Who impressed it upon the minds of those who have an ear to hear?From the perspective of classical apologetics, the book is inspired (by God) and is without error as to its intended teaching.From jars perspective, the book(s) are simply authored, edited, and redacted by humans seeking to understand GOD (and perhaps many who had ulterior motives to start new religions and promote the dogma of their cult)Does that sound about right?

How come that Spirit failed so miserably to ever get the story straight or avoid all the contradictions and factual errors present in what was written?

Perhaps because if it were done your way, people would simply have to believe. The facts and evidence would be there.GOD literally would have written the book.The fact is that humans wrote it.Some believe that humans were uninspired by GOD.Others believe that those who have an ear to hear are inspired, while the skeptics will be forever attempting a conclusion.Belief presupposes certainty.Science by nature throws the conclusions away and continually challenge its own conclusions.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

That does not answer the question. Why wasn't the Spirit capable of getting the flood story straight instead of two mutually exclusive stories? Why wasn't the Spirit capable of getting the order of creation right as well as the method of creation instead of inspiring two mutually exclusive stories? Why could'd the Spirit inspire one version of the Great Commandment or the Road to Damascus affair? Why could the Spirit decide on one set of stories to include in "The Bible" instead of versions with only five stories to versions with over eighty?Why couldn't the God character put all the evidence in the order that matched what the Spirit was marketing?