The spectacular fall of YEC beliefs

I'm not sure you Yanks realise what a special case you are in modern Western democracies. To us here in Western Europe you're a bizarre combination of primitive superstition and advanced societal development. We (I) can't reconcile iPads and a liberal Constitution with creationism.The Uk is around 10-15% creationist - which I still find shocking high even though it's mostly hidden so not as obvious as the US. And it seems to be on an increasing trend as immigration from Muslim countries and Estern Europe grows. There's still a very long way to go if you take a world view.

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A 2007 study of religious patterns found that only 8% of Egyptians, 11% of Malaysians, 14% of Pakistanis, 16% of Indonesians, and 22% of Turks agree that Darwin's theory is probably or most certainly true, and a 2006 survey reported that about a quarter of Turkish adults agreed that human beings evolved from earlier animal species.[64] Surveys carried out by researchers affiliated with McGill University's Evolution Education Research Centre found that in Egypt and Pakistan, while the official high school curriculum does include evolution, many of the teachers there do not believe in it themselves, and will often tell their students so.[65]

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Currently in Egypt, evolution is taught in schools but Saudi Arabia and Sudan have both banned the teaching of evolution in schools.[66][67] In recent times, creationism has become more widespread in other Islamic countries.[68]

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The results of a survey of the adherence to creation science of 5,700 teachers from 14 countries was presented during the 2008 XIII IOSTE Symposium in Izmir, Turkey. Lebanon, Senegal, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria had 62% to 81% of creationist teachers (with no difference between biologists and others). Romania and Burkina Faso had 45% to 48% of creationist teachers in Romania and Burkina Faso, with no difference between biologists and other in Romania, but a clear difference (p<0.001) in Burkina Faso (with 61% of creationists for the not biology teachers). Portugal and Cyprus had 15% to 30% of creationist teachers, with no significant difference between biologists, but a significant difference in Portugal (p=0.004, 17% and 26%).[69]

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Creationism by country - WikipediaI don't think we can rely on the internet - it works both ways there are huge amounts of creationist and religious sites out there and the believers are just as capable with their propoganda as any other tribe; kids can remain inside their creationist bubble quite easily

I'm not particularly familiar with the US constitution but I believe one of its aims was to protect its citizens from fundamantalist belief systems like yours was it not? Obviously false. Facts and evidence tell you the exact opposite - though of course you are immune to them. The happiest, most satisfied societies are those with the least belief in religion. Try Scandanavia.But I suspect you've never left your country to see how the rest of the world works. I once asked you if you own a passport - you didn't answer?

I guess you want to withdraw your previous statement then

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it was Christianity that gave us our liberal Constitution and western civilization in general for that matter.
  —Faith

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Since they shook off superstition. According to Faith who has a proclamation on everything but knows nothing about anything. The irony.....So, you have no passport and no education, yet you know so much.Have you ever left your state?

You're mistaking Christians - ie people - with Christianity - ie religion. I'm a Christian; I just happen to be an atheistic one. It was people that 'inspired' the enlightement, not religion. Left to its own devices religion would prevent the seaarch for knowledge and did so for centuries. But you know this. Humanism is fine. You may have noticed that no one here has ever expressed a desire for witchcraft, paganism or tribalism. In fact quite the opposite if you cared anything about actual truth.So never left your state then. How about town?

You're bonkers. Stark staring bonkers.

To be honest, although I was born and raised a traditional Christian in an overwhelmingly Christian community the stuff I hear you Americans talking about never ever came up. Evolution was universally taught and young earth was never ever raised. Maybe that's an English Christain thing. Sure, it's easier go from 40% to 30% than from 10% to 0%. And it's great to see it happening. What's surprising is how late you guys are. It's inevitable - I hope.

Apologies, a terrible, terrible insult. You must feel badly abused; I know I would. I was blind-sighted by you speaking about American beliefs as though you were an American.(Btw, i was born West of Manchester, went to Manchester Uni. Lived in Salford for a couple of years. Still don't like Eccle's cakes or football.)

I bet in real life we're all actually quite human.Longshot.....

Your lack of a passport and an education plus a mind constricted by biblical truths makes you an unreliable source Faith.But it's true that at least here in the UK religion had a large influence in education, particularly following the reformation. But its motives were not altruistic, they were to promote the Church's influence. 'Get them young.'The church actively tried to prevent secular, state-based education - the last thing a religion wants is an enquiring mind and different answers than their own.

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Prior to the nineteenth century, there were few schools. Most of those that existed were run by church authorities and stressed religious education.[11] The Church of England resisted early attempts for the state to provide secular education.[12]

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In 1811, the Anglican National Society for Promoting the Education of the Poor in the Principles of the Established Church in England and Wales was established. The schools founded by the National Society were called National Schools. They were eventually absorbed into the state system under the Butler Act (1944), and to this day many state schools, most of them primary schools, maintain a link to the Church of England, reflecting their historic origins.

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The Protestant non-conformist, non-denominational, or "British schools" were founded by Society for Promoting the Lancasterian System for the Education of the Poor, an organisation formed in 1808 by Joseph Fox, William Allen and Samuel Whitbread and supported by several evangelical and non-conformist Christians.[13]

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In 1814, compulsory apprenticeship by indenture was abolished. By 1831, Sunday School in Great Britain was ministering weekly to 1,250,000 children, approximately 25% of the population. As these schools preceded the first state funding of schools for the common public, they are sometimes seen as a forerunner to the current English school system.

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History of education in England - WikipediaThe Catholics resisted saying the Mass in English until the mid 20th century for fear that once the public understood what they were actually saying they'd see how daft it was. They were correct to worry.

Who you are is very relevant because where you stand affects what you can see.When you speak about geology, molecular biology, palaeontology, evolution etc etc it's relevant to know whether you have any education or knowledge in those areas. We know you don't.I'm interested in whether you have a passport - you don't of course - because had you ever travelled outside your tiny bubble you might have acquired a less caustic view of life outside your parochial little world.

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Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

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Mark Twain

I know a lot about you Faith. I've been reading your stuff for years. Of course if I've got it all wrong and you have qualifications in the things you make claims about, it's easy to put me right. Similarly if you've travelled the world - and even travelled outside your own state - do tell. Hmm, that sounded almost like an ad hominen... I did answer your question - you just ignored it, as usual.

You can tell a lot about people from what they believe and in your case I quite obviously can tell a few things about you can't I?Of course if I'm wrong you could always say so.Meanwhile, you've ignored my answer again.

Self-serving, political and an attempt to indoctrinate. Luckily the policy of indoctrination failed and the result is that with the decline of religion's power, secular society has made huge progress despite being utterly stagnant for a millenia under religious rule.

I know, you've told us many times. The questions were about whether you have any education or a passport or if you've ever even travelled outside your state.

Then we're forced to form our own conclusions......