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Author Topic:   Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win.
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2688 of 2887 (832453)
05-04-2018 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 2687 by Percy
05-03-2018 5:45 PM


Crinoids are pretty fragile, live or dead
Percy writes:
Faith writes:
You talk about "fossils" but also about things growing where they were found, which of course fossils can't do.
I think Moose may have misspoke a bit in his second paragraph. He wasn't supporting your flood scenario but introducing a point against it. When he said "life (as fossils) were growing where they were found" what I think he meant to say was that life became entombed and eventually became fossils in the same environment where they lived. I think he used the crinoid fossil as an example because it fit his point so well, an animal that lives in a single place its entire life attached by a stalk to a rock.
Re: ""life (as fossils) were growing where they were found"". I have no idea of why I put that "(as fossils)" in there - It indeed makes no sense. Maybe it was a bit of relict text that should have been eliminated in the editing.
The main point intended, is that something like that crinoid was too fragile to not be broken up, while alive or after death, by any sort of strong current. It didn't get washed in from some distant place. The pictured specimen is remarkable in its preservation, somehow having escaped destruction by predators and scavengers. As I said before, even if the fossil origin is not obvious, the bulk of limestones are made up of the destroyed calcium carbonate shells etc of critters (disclaimer - Not a carbonate petrologist of a paleontology expert).
Surprising to me, was to find that modern stalked crinoids do have a little self-mobility. Not going to outrun much anything though.
Corrections to any misstatement I may have made are welcome.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Touch up subtitle.

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2725 of 2887 (832523)
05-04-2018 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2724 by Faith
05-04-2018 9:54 PM


An angular unconformity is not an angular unconformity
Sand over the tilted siltstones would not form an angular unconformity, it would just bury the siltstones.
Younger sediments deposited on top of older tilted sediments is the definition of an angular unconformity. "Volcanics" can substitute for "sediments", younger and/or older. Still an angular unconformity.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Change subtitle.

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 Message 2724 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 9:54 PM Faith has replied

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 Message 2729 by Faith, posted 05-05-2018 2:04 AM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 2746 of 2887 (832544)
05-05-2018 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2729 by Faith
05-05-2018 2:04 AM


Re: An angular unconformity is not an angular unconformity
How can you have an angular unconformity unless the overlying sediment, whatever it is, forms a flat slab of rock across the tilted rocks? Are you saying it does, or that it's not necessary?
All that is required is a covering of later material, sediments or volcanics. The covering material need not be rock, be flat, or be a "slab" (whatever that is).
In northern Minnesota, glacial sediments are on top of the Ely Greenstone and sedimentary rocks (dated 2.7 billion years old) that are at some locations now vertical. The glacial deposits are not lithified, but that early preCambrian/Pleistocene contact is an angular unconformity. And in absolutely no way is that contact a fault.
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2802 of 2887 (832617)
05-06-2018 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2800 by Faith
05-05-2018 9:44 PM


Re: An angular unconformity is not an angular unconformity
edge writes:
Faith to Moose writes:
How can you have an angular unconformity unless the overlying sediment, whatever it is, forms a flat slab of rock across the tilted rocks? Are you saying it does, or that it's not necessary?
An angular unconformity occurs when the sedimentary layering in the two layers are different. There is nothing in the definition of unconformity that says one must be a flat slab of rock.
My "bolding". I think Edge didn't state that real well. I think he meant "An angular unconformity occurs when the sedimentary layering in the two layers are of different attitudes", or something like that. Better stated as "An angular unconformity occurs when the later sedimentary layer has a different attitude (strike and dip) than the earlier layer.
From Wikipedia, Unconformity:
An angular unconformity is an unconformity where horizontally parallel strata of sedimentary rock are deposited on tilted and eroded layers, producing an angular discordance with the overlying horizontal layers.
"Overlying horizontal layers."
Your much loved Steno Principle of Original Horizontality. Which is to say that the dipping lower rock strata was NOT originally deposited dipping like that.
Later deformation might cause the later layers to also no longer be horizontal. There is even the possibility that the later deformation might have caused the lower layers to rotate back to horizontal.
Here is a photo of an angular unconformity that shows a history of two deformations. The older rocks are near vertical while the later rocks dip at about 45 degrees. See the source page for a little more information on how this happened.
I recall once having seen a photo of a similar situation, only that there was a third more or less horizontal sedimentary unit on top. Two angular unconformities in the same photo. Alas, I haven't been able to track down that photo.
Moose

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2882 of 2887 (832829)
05-11-2018 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2878 by Percy
05-09-2018 7:36 PM


Summation mode comment
Posted by the non-admin mode, to show that such can be done. Admins are exempt from summation mode restrictions, but inadvertently such is also extended to the non-admin linked ID.
Anyway, despite appearances that the summation mode had started after AdminPhat message 2873, it actually didn't kick in until 5 messages later, which is after Percy had posted his 2 replies to Faith (messages 2877 and 2878).
Adminnemooseus (pretending to be Minnemooseus)

This message is a reply to:
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