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Author | Topic: Who Made God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18636 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I CANT writes: Seems to me like you are doing what this cartoon suggests...starting with a conclusion. Which strictly speaking is not science.
Phat either God exists or He does not exist. Make up your mind. Now lets see if I could see if there could possibly be a benefit to science if my God exists. So tell me what you think about what the cartoon suggests? Just because i believe that God exists does not prohibit me from questioning how believers think.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
If you put 2 neutraly charged strips in a vacuum too close to gether to have space to form a virtual particle between them, the pressure from the vrirtual particles forming and coliding with the strands will push the strands together. On the quantum scale virtual particles are constantly poping in and out of existence, one positive one negative, and in the next moment they collide and cease to exists.
Also hawking radiation, where virtual particles become relal particles, a pair of virtual particles form near the event horizon of a black hole, one gets sucked in the other escapes as hawking radiation. So if the law of conservation of energy can be bent on a whim at the quantum scale why do you think they couldn't be bent at the creation of the universe. Especially since it seams that the net energy of our universe is 0. But im no expert on quantum mechanics, i dislike the math but love the experiments and theories so i could be wrong. But it seams that something can come from nothing as long as a negative something comes in to existence too. Edited by frako, : No reason given.Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi LNA,
LNA writes: This issue of life in the blood has to do with animals being allowed to be eaten by men after the flood. Wherever you got your theology degree from you need to ask for a refund.
quote: These three verses go together in the original text and cover the complete thought under discussion in them. This was written to the children of Israel.Verse 10 says any man (Israelite or sojourner) who eats any manner of blood will be cut off. Verse 11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood. It also says blood has been shed to make an atonement. Verse 12 says Therefore... no soul (living being) of you shall eat blood. What are these verses talking about? Eating blood.What is said concerning eating blood? Man forbidden from eating blood. Why are they forbidden from eating blood? Because the life of the flesh is in the blood. What is the results of eating blood? Cut off from the promise. Is the life of the flesh in the blood?
quote:Bloodletting - Wikipedia That don't sound like myth's or gods or religion to me. It sounds like the people that fancied themselves as medical people used bloodletting to treat sickness.
LNA writes: (How people that call themselves Christian can be so ignorant about sacrifice (think Jesus!) always amazes me, except for my awareness of the total complete brainwashing that is always going on) Why don't you get your facts straight before you start calling people ignorant. I know blood was shed and used in sacrifices in the old testament. I also know the Israelites were not supposed to eat meat that the blood had been offered as a sacrifice. I also know God came to earth and took on the form of a man we called Jesus and shed the blood of that physical body at Calvary to buy mankind back out of slavery. But the Bible Leviticus 17:11 says "For the life of the flesh is in the blood", which has been proven to be a fact by modern science. Cut that any way you like. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi LNA,
LNA writes: So did God come after the Universe? quote: What part of eternal do you not understand?
LNA writes: Because you never stated how God could get here. I have always said God was eternal that means He has no beginning and no end.
LNA writes: You keep saying that SOMETHING CAN'T COME FROM NOTHING but previously you seemed to be saying God did that very thing. I have never said God came from nothing God is eternal, infinite.
LNA writes: Can you please paste the text to your articles (like Hawking's) that no longer exist on the internet? And can you please paste links to your articles when they are presently on the internet? I said if I could find the article I would post them. But it does not matter he has already ditched them. Any article I quote from I post where you can find it. If I missed one point it out and I will get the location. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi LNA,
LNA writes: Space is being created today, and even you would say it is naturalistic. I don't know what that has to do with getting information past T=10-43 s., towards the zero side. But maybe you or someone here could enlighten me on how space is being created today. Everything is inside the pea sized universe that is supposed to exist at T=10-43 s.. There is nothing outside not even space? Although I have been told the universe is expanding. I have never had anyone explain how the universe can be expanding as there is nothing for it to expand into. If there is nothing outside of the universe there would not be any space for the universe to expand into. It would still be the size of a pea.
LNA writes: The whole problem about this "beginning" being evidence that "proves God", is that you (and everybody else?) don't say where God came from. We say, you just shut your eyes and don't see it on the screen. God is infinite.
LNA writes: A genuine effort would reveal that the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS would quickly arise once we attempted a solution for how God came to be in the first place. He didn't HE IS. Either an eternal power created the universe or the universe has existed eternally itself. Science says the universe has not always existed. Energy and mass are interchangeable. But every time they change there is unusable power and it is lost. That means if the universe was eternal it would have to have an external power source, or it would have already run out of power and died a cold death.
LNA writes: Space and Matter were part of something that always existed. It would have to be something very powerful as there are a lot energy and matter in the universe. But if there was a infinite amount of space and matter what would kick start it and cause it to form the universe.
LNA writes: Space and matter evolved (or popped up under certain circumstances) from nothing. quote:Existence: Why is there a universe? | New Scientist I agree those things can happen in our universe as this universe is full of energy that is everywhere. Including some that has never been see but is there to hold the universe together. But when you have nothing you would have a system with zero energy to start with and there would be no energy to start. If I understand what the above quote says correctly and:Nothing equals zero energy. Non Existence equals zero energy. Since nothing equals zero energy absolutely nothing can pop into existence as a system can not exist without energy.
quote:emphasis added Existence: Why is there a universe? | New Scientist I love that business of 'think', but there is zero evidence for inflation.Sir Roger Penrose declared inflation was a fantasy in the quote I used in one of my earlier posts. LNA writes: Space and Matter were "eternal" in the same way God is described as "always being there". cavediver told me once that the universe just is. Which would be what you are stating. Space is just that space. Matter is just matter, what would transform it into energy and where would the directions come from to get it to do anything. You are making a great case for my eternal God who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes: And there is no smallest number just bigger than zero. Should I throw my text book away then? The number T=1x10-6176 is equal to the smallest positive non-zero value that can be represented by a quadruple-precision IEEE decimal floating-point value. If that number is wrong, what is the right number? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi NoNukes,
NoNukes writes: Do you know why there is any current limit on our ability to opine on the state of the universe? You can opine anything you fell like opining. So how about opining as to what would be required to get information further back than T=10-43 s. That is what I was asking for. According to Son Goku it was a quintillion degrees at T=10-43 s. It boggles my mind to even think about getting information from T=10-43 s that the universe is there and expanding. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi fraco,
fraco writes: If you put 2 neutraly charged strips in a vacuum too close to gether to have space to form a virtual particle between them, the pressure from the vrirtual particles forming and coliding with the strands will push the strands together. On the quantum scale virtual particles are constantly poping in and out of existence, one positive one negative, and in the next moment they collide and cease to exists. It does require a vacuum to exist for that to take place. Is there a vacuum outside the universe where this process could occur? I have been told here on this web site that there is nothing outside of the universe. That it is a self-contained universe that existed a T=10-43 s and was expanding. That being the case the universe could not begin to exist by such a process. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Phat,
Phat writes: Seems to me like you are doing what this cartoon suggests...starting with a conclusion. Which strictly speaking is not science. The facts are already there and have been for over 2500 years. All I did was point out the facts. And I have known those facts for the better part of 68 years.
Phat writes: Just because i believe that God exists does not prohibit me from questioning how believers think. As long as you make comments like the one below I am not sure you belive God does exist.
Message 315Phat writes: Even if God exists and even if He is the God YOU understand Making the statement "Even if" is questioning God's existence. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Is there a vacuum outside the universe where this process could occur? A perfect one not even space and time "inside it" Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Phat Member Posts: 18636 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I CANT, I thought I would share with you an exchange that I had with my own Pastor, recently.
He likely thinks much the same way that you do, and I know that his reply will be ridiculed here at EvC, but nobody here is as well known by me as he is, and I value his input. This is our conversation:
ME --my faith has been tested lately...I believe, but I dont believe in what people tell me I need to believe in. I believe that Jesus is Lord, that He is alive today and that He is Gods Son, Creator of all seen and unseen, but I do not believe in a word for word literal Bible...that stuff you guys teach about a literal Genesis and all that...makes no sense logically. I refuse to simply shut my eyes tight and declare that I believe THAT! PASTOR--That’s your pitfall. The foundation of our faith is in Genesis. If you don’t believe that your foundation is built on sand and your faith will never be stable.
ME--I just have to be honest...I cant believe in something that is not logical.Ken Ham is not a strong Christian, by the way. The reason I come to bug you is that I believe that you are, but my issue is with God and not humans.(although some humans are willfully ignorant) PASTOR--You want a creator who does things according to your logic. You fail to realize He is beyond what our brains can fathom.
ME--my intelligence is likely my downfall...I wish I could just have the trusting faith of a child, but I must be honest with myselfand yes you have a point... PASTOR--Your intelligence? Think about that statement. Your intelligence. It’s minuscule in comparison to an infinite God.
ME--I know. that I DO believe!
PASTOR--You.... you are your own issue. You have to learn the all-important lesson of dying to self. I CANT writes: The reason that I frame my statements that way is to present my belief the way that many people at EvC would understand. jar taught me the idea that God cannot be proven, thus to frame the issue as a belief against reality is more honest than to declare that what I believe is reality. Making the statement "Even if" is questioning God's existence. Edited by Phat, : spelling Edited by Phat, : explanationChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18636 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
This article helped me conceptualize the idea of a universe expanding into space.
What is the universe expanding into? (Intermediate) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer Edited by Phat, : fixed broken linkChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
broken link for me
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Phat Member Posts: 18636 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
What is the universe expanding into? (Intermediate) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Im more of a believer in extra dimensions as posited by string, superstring or m or brain theory. Our universe is just one expanding 3D bouble in a 10 D, or more dimensional multiverse. So i have no problems whit our universe expanding.
But its not like we can prove this whitout taking a peek at those extra dimensions, But some observations about gravity suggest there might be other universes pulling on us, and there is also some evidence that our universe might have at one time collided with another. As for how our universe got to be, its just a quantum fluctuation in higher dimensions. Like a virtual particle it just came to existence because there was a chance it could. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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