Who Made God?

They are roughly the same. The time you spend dead is a lot longer than the time you will spend alive.Plus I always liked the idea of Pascals WagerEdited by Phat, : No reason given.

I was curious about these questions so I googled a bit. Here is what I found: The Universe Adventure
Reading further, I found a fascinating claim: Just that statement is enough to blow my mind. If a paperclip could do that, what could my own body itself do?

so what about the paperclip? I have always respected your insights and wondered if UC Berkley is on track with that statement?

Trying to keep this within the framework of this topic, which is Who Made God.Now that we have brought Cosmology, Math, and Physics into this discussion, courtesy of Pastor I CANT, I thought I would add my 2 cents.However the universe came about, or whether it eternally exists is a question we may never know. What we can agree on is that creation is involved. Some argue that saying god Did It is too simplistic of an explanation and is in fact a non-explanation, but I would argue that a lot depends on the energy and power of the God being described. jar often mentions that many of the gods marketed by believers are petty, picayune despots hardly worthy of a second thought. Others, such as I CANT, undoubtedly imagine the God they believe in to involve massive unmeasureable amounts of energy and that the concept of a grand design (and possibly designer) is hardly insignificant, Picayune, or irrelevant.One question that we might ask, along the lines of this discussion:How much energy does it take to imagine God or a god? Is it the same amount of energy required to imagine a bowl of cereal? How much energy does our mind(s) use in internal creativity and reasoning? If we can conceive of a universe without a designer, would it take a similar amount of energy to conceive and attempt to define a designer?I am talking belief, pantheism and/or monotheism. I am also talking creativity. My argument is basically that either concept can be considered. But again...as I CANT asked, how much energy did it take to create me? Does the energy employed in my thinking about the origin of a universe in any way approximate the actual energy employed in the creation of that universe? Why or why not?

Give the Pastor a break! He is learning right along with everyone else. He happens to believe that God created the universe and that it took a lot of energy! Whats so silly about that?The topic is Who Made God? So who did? Is God a human invention or are we His invention?In one respect, invoking the name of God is simply giving a personality to the energy involved in what came before the Big Bang. That is hardly a simple discussion.

OK I see your point.

Thats human nature. Lets take the ocean. Many people do not find it impressive unltil it arrives in the form of a Tsunami and wipes out their house and family before their eyes. I CANT is impressed with God, even while likely denying that he made the God that he worships up. You laugh at his ideas and declare them simplistic, dogmatic, and as laughable to you as the God of Calvinism. All that he is trying to do is describe what he believes to be GOD (The reality) to others. You yourself introduced us to that term. Remember how you taught me the construct? Which is logical, but dont simply make fun of folk who dare to describe a God that they believe can be described. You can challenge their ideas by describing what you see as a bigger GOD than they describe, and then the argument resumes. Simply putting people down, asking them if they ever read the Bible, and laughing at their ideas does not help add anything to any conversation that we engage in here at EvC. Remember when you described GOD as you understood Him(Her It) I could make fun of you for saying that GOD is all, accusing you of pantheism.
or Yin and Yang. Both your GOD and I CANTS God can be supported Biblically. So why the jeering and condescending tones towards I CANT and his ideas?I CANT has a point in that we have been unable to observe the origins of the universe, thus why not invoke GOD rather than simply ENERGY? One is as likely as the other.

Reminder: The topic is Who Made God? Really now. You need to try a bit harder to rediscover the inner kindness and rationale which I know that you have.Lets review I CANT and jars interactions in this thread and judge for ourselves the point attempting to be made. All I see so far is that I CANT is stating his belief. He made not be well schooled in science, nor am I, but his premise is basic: At a certain point in the distant past, right at the time of the Big Bang, no observation as to the cause of the event was possible to determine. Perhaps I CANTs only potential error is in declaring that Science never will figure it out. We don't know that.The exchange continues: Thus, I CANT is stating his belief. He disagrees with Hawking saying that God is not necessary to create the universe. Fair enough.
You have said similar things, jar. From How Do We Know God is Good?
See? You are capable of being empathetic towards others who believe differently than you do. You seem to lump Biblical Creationists into one vile category...they are different. I CANT is not Falwell, Bakker, Hinn, or Faith. From what I see, he helps those in his congregation. Just because he doesn't see God the way you do is no reason to ridicule him.

My fault. I moved it from Book Nook where it already existed as a topic. I was going to start a new one but for whatever reason back then I abused my power. Please forgive my error in judgment.

To be fair, Son Goku may argue that there are more than these 3 choices. I would be interested to hear his informed opinion, based on what he knows.

I'm more interested in whether the BBT is the prevailing theory among Cosmologists or whether any competing theories have arisen.Despite being a believer in God, I fully understand why God does not count among the theories presented by science. And as you know, I respect that you take time to talk with us here. Science is honest enough to admit what it does not know and explain what it does know.

In other words, content is more pertinent than source. Right?

Its not a matter of any concept deserving anything! Though I can see where I CANT gets offended that his God is not being respected as a sacred cow in this discussion, I personally believe that GOD if GOD exists would not be offended in any way. Your logic is sound, Stile. The only answers that we can collectively discuss are natural processes, be they my brain, human intuitiveness, confirmation bias, or scientific evidence. My usual answer to this question is that it appears impossible for something to arise out of absolute nothingness. Looking at that answer another way, some folks have become believers in what they previously saw as nothing, so I retract my original reply. Asking "Why" is always a good approach. Good point. I'll think about that. Sometimes I dont know why it is so important for believers to attempt to prove their belief. In ways, sometimes I think we are projecting our inner insecurities. In essence we are arguing with ourselves because we have doubts. Though we can assert that man did not make GOD, if GOD exists. (Though you did coin the term)

Here is my 2 cents at 3 am since I had to check EvC! (Will go back to sleep shortly)To I CANT: Even if God exists and even if He is the God YOU understand, what possible benefit would it be for science to simply give up being science and trying to understand how events occur? For many of the science minded folks, studying in order to understand reality is priceless. Concluding that God Did It is a killjoy, in a way. Our creator gave us inquisitive minds for a reason.To Everyone else: We believers somehow want all of you to believe as we believe, but i can see how that effort is irritating at best. Please ignore my unconscious attempts to convince you of Gods reality. Should He(She, It, Jesus)
think it to be important that you consider Him, He will let you know one way or another.In conclusion, GOD may well exist, but jar is correct in that humans seek to define and conceptualize Him...or don't really care nor bother.Some folks are much more fascinated by exploring the universe rather than conceptualizing GOD. The God whom I believe in really does not care if you accept or believe in Him or not. I'm thinking (believing, considering) that He may want to know everyone, but that He won't force Himself on anyone. perhaps most of these religious topics are a waste of time for many of you.(Im thinking of you Tangle! )So what else do we talk about? Start a new topic and i will promote it

It has never occurred to me to wonder about this question. I guess that it was easy for me to conceptualize God as always existing, never having been created nor arriving from anywhere else.Perhaps this internal certainty (some would call it a denial of reality) is part of my belief.Humans can logically deduce that everything has to come from somewhere. What isnt so easy is to conceptualize the definition of what GOD would actually be like and whether Spirit has to follow the rules of logic that matter and energy have been pinned down as having.