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Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 300 (823971)
11-20-2017 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by RAZD
11-20-2017 10:53 AM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
So it looks like she owes Franken an apology, and also one to all the real victims of sexual assault as this ploy weakens the #metoo movement, and it gives perverts like Roy Moore a window to claim the women are just doing it for attention .. like Tweeden.
I am very saddened by the news regarding Al Franken, but I won't react by differently to what seem to be attempts at shaming the victim regardless whether it is Moore's supporters or Franken's supporters who are doing it. I am a long time fan of Franken's. and I have admired his work in the US Senate.
Tweeden was seen kissing another performer? That certainly doesn't discredit her in my eyes. Tweeden groped another performer? Did that turn out to be unwanted? I'd need to hear that before I'd even consider these kinds of stories in any way.
And this:
quote:
If it is revealed that she perverted the important #MeToo campaign to launch a smear job on a Senator
"If it is revealed"? Yeah, let me know when you've got something other than innuendo.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 10:53 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 5:56 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 300 (823988)
11-20-2017 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by RAZD
11-20-2017 5:56 PM


Re: Rush to Judgement with story origin from Faux Noise?
Is that the standard now?
Yes. The standard for whether sexual contact between adults is even a problem is strictly based on consent. You are saying that she kissed somebody and that she grabbed somebody else's butt. Absent those folks having a problem with it, or those folks being intimidated by her, you haven't shown me a problem yet.
She's done her job, and now they can vote for Roy Moore?
Roy Moore is scum. That is completely independent of whether or not Al Franken groped anyone.
Remember her complaint is that Franken kissed her, a kiss was part of the act
I am addressing an attack on her that has a completely different basis. The attack I am rejecting seems to be based on either the accuser being a slut or having participated in sexual misconduct or her own.
o we have one standard for men and a different one for women? Not for me
No. If she did what she was accused of, that does not get Al Franken off, in my opinion.
I think I was pretty clear about my objection. I don't recognize any attempt to address what I actually said in my post here. If someone other than you had made this response, I probably would not give them the benefit of the doubt.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by RAZD, posted 11-20-2017 5:56 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 10:27 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 300 (824025)
11-21-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by RAZD
11-21-2017 10:36 AM


Re: 50 shades of gaslighting
Now consider that the purpose is not to make Franken look bad, but it is aired now to distract attention from Roy Moore sexual predator
Not going to happen to me at least. But what difference do I make? I don't vote in Alabama.
By now of course, we know that there is another, more recent, allegation against Al Franken.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 10:36 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 1:39 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 300 (824028)
11-21-2017 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by RAZD
11-21-2017 1:39 PM


Re: Vote for Doug Jones with Campaign Donations
But you do vote in America, and winning a senate seat from the republicans would (a) knock Thrump down another notch and (b) help prevent more republican disastrous bills and judge appointments from passing.
Yes, I do care about the make-up of the Senate. What I am suggesting with my question is that a conspiracy regarding Al Franken is not going to have much effect on my opposition to Roy Moore. At best I will want to be rid of both of them.
My opposition to Roy Moore won't stop even if he is elected. It is not prefaced on whether or not Franken is guilty or innocent.
Past experience has shown that powerful lefties are no better at keeping their willies in their pants, and their hands off of some pretty girl's boobs than are their Republican counterparts. And today's climate is such that women are empowered to do speak out about that regardless of the whether the pervert is a leftie or a rightie. That's how it should be. O'Reilly is gone from Fox. We celebrated. Charlie Rose was fired today by CBS. Al Franken is under attack, and I doubt that he will be the last one.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 11-21-2017 1:39 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by RAZD, posted 11-22-2017 1:55 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 300 (824392)
11-27-2017 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Percy
11-27-2017 6:48 PM


Re: Frankern: Resign Now
If Franken remembers decades of groping women's butts this poorly,
Franken did not say that he did not remember grabbing butts. His statement only directly addresses surprise that women are coming forward.
Of course, that still does not make Franken any more fit for elected office.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Percy, posted 11-27-2017 6:48 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 300 (824393)
11-27-2017 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Percy
11-27-2017 6:48 PM


Re: Frankern: Resign Now
If Franken remembers decades of groping women's butts this poorly,
Franken did not say that he did not remember grabbing butts. His statement only directly addresses surprise that women are coming forward.
Of course, that still does not make Franken any more fit for elected office.
ABE:
Franken's did say that he does not remember incidents that appear in photographs. Those statements just were not in the parts Percy quoted. Percy's post was accurate.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Percy, posted 11-27-2017 6:48 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 151 of 300 (824402)
11-28-2017 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Minnemooseus
11-28-2017 1:02 AM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
As I've seen it, Franken is pretty much neither admitting nor denying any of the incidents. He certainly is taking pains not to accuse any woman of lying about it, although he did seem to imply that Tweeden was lying ("I didn't remember it that way").
I agree. Franken's responses are carefully crafted. It is impossible to blow up his responses into some kind of he-lied, she-lied back and forth because he is going out of his way not to call most of the women liars.
I would suggest that Franken is getting great legal advice from someone.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-28-2017 1:02 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 300 (824578)
11-30-2017 2:40 PM


Lefties on the bullseye?
I am personally disheartened by the alleged conduct of Al Franken. I have been a fan of his comedy, writing, and his political career. My appreciation dates back to at least the 80's.
But I could make similar comments about a lot of folks who are currently on the hot seat, some of whom have already been fired from their jobs. Charlie Rose, John Conyers, Bill Cosby, among others. It seems that the entertainment and News industry is rife with that kind of scandal, which I think means we lefties can expect to receive more than our share of disappointment.
Are men pigs? Yeah, it does seem that many of us are. I don't recall instances where I made mistakes about a grab or a kiss being unwanted. But then I never grabbed or tried to kiss a co-worker or subordinate, and I don't have adoring fans begging to take pictures with me.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by ramoss, posted 12-06-2017 2:23 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 300 (825001)
12-06-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Phat
12-06-2017 11:48 AM


Re: Franken: Resign Now
I think I agree. These allegations do not sound staged...they sound genuine.
I believe almost all of the allegations, and I'm not dismissing even the ones I have some doubts about. Franken has admitted to some unacceptable behavior.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Phat, posted 12-06-2017 11:48 AM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 300 (825018)
12-06-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by ramoss
12-06-2017 2:23 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
We can call for Republicans to resign, but the real accounting comes from within your party. Republicans politicians are not pushing for Trump or Roy Moore to exit politics and by and large, neither are the voters.
Let's not forget that ultimately this is not about the politicians but about our sister, aunts and daughters. We must do right by them.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by ramoss, posted 12-06-2017 2:23 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 12-06-2017 2:58 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 300 (825046)
12-06-2017 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by ringo
12-06-2017 2:58 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
NoNukes writes:
Let's not forget that ultimately this is not about the politicians but about our sister, aunts and daughters. We must do right by them.
ringo writes:
How can you do right by them when they help to vote the Republicans in?
I think that is irrelevant who my daughter votes for. But your own mileage may vary.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by ringo, posted 12-06-2017 2:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 12-07-2017 10:46 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 300 (825081)
12-07-2017 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by ringo
12-07-2017 10:46 AM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
So you can "do right" by your daughter by getting rid of the guy she wants to vote for?
Yes, ringo. That is exactly what I am saying. Just as I am saying that despite the fact that Al Franken would otherwise have been my pick, I support him being gone. I've even explained my reasoning. Similarly, Roy Moore should not be a senator regardless of what Republicans are willing to do. What is so hard for you to understand?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 12-07-2017 10:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Rrhain, posted 12-08-2017 4:14 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 206 by ringo, posted 12-08-2017 10:45 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 300 (825158)
12-09-2017 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Rrhain
12-08-2017 4:14 AM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
So the same question to you as to Percy:
It happened to me. Was I sexually assaulted?
Might the situation be a bit more complicated? Are you confident in substituting your opinion about "doing right" by your daughter for your daughter's?
I have no idea what you are talking about.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Rrhain, posted 12-08-2017 4:14 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Rrhain, posted 12-12-2017 4:06 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 300 (825321)
12-12-2017 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Rrhain
12-12-2017 4:06 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
So if this happened to your daughter and she told you it was no big deal
This hypothetical and your view of what happened to you does not match any fact pattern for any of the relevant cases. All of the women involved in the public cases under discussion say that it happened and that it was a big deal. With regards to the cases involving minors, I don't care whether the women are okay with it or not.
In addition, Franken appears to be involved in a series of similar incidents rather than a single incident that can be explained away as you do your own incident.
Since only you and one other woman is involved, and that woman is not trying to hold a position of responsibility in government, I'm satisfied with whatever handling of the incident you did. Similarly, I don't expect to see Al Franken, or Conyers, or Moore arrested. But I don't want those folks in Congress.
Your mileage may vary.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Rrhain, posted 12-12-2017 4:06 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Rrhain, posted 12-14-2017 10:29 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 300 (825510)
12-15-2017 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Rrhain
12-14-2017 10:29 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
And I don't recall saying whether or not I thought it was a big deal. In fact, I made a point to ask if the argument changes based upon my reaction.
You are one of the two parties involved. So yes, both your impression and her impression are relevant. Despite your claim not to have expressed your opinion, you appear to have accepted her explanation.
I'll also add, that even if she kissed you without your prior consent or without asking, it does matter whether or not you were okay with it after the fact. At least as far as sexual assault is concerned. On the job harassment is a more complicated issue.
In any event, if you tell me about a series of folks claiming that the same woman assaulted them, I think that does give me more data to form an opinion. I have formed my option about Franken and your story does nothing to persuade me otherwise. It does not even introduce any doubt.
Was I sexually assaulted?
You tell me. If you aren't going to give me your side of the story, then you haven't come close to presenting the same pictures that we have of Moore's and Franken's accusers.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Rrhain, posted 12-14-2017 10:29 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Rrhain, posted 12-16-2017 2:08 AM NoNukes has replied

  
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