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Author | Topic: Genesis "kinds" may be Nested Hierarchies. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
In the way of an exercise, could a flying pig be fitted into a nested hierarchy?
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
If a flying mammal (a bat) can be fitted into a nested hierarchy, then another flying mammal - a pig - surely can. All you need to do is invent another branch on the tree - as you could do for any "new" creature (whether living or fossilized). We didn't didn't know there were mammals that grew wings out their ribs, but now we do, so, we just add a branch to the base of the mammal branch.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Percy writes:
Dragons are described in the Bible, so they existed. When one of their fossils is discovered, evolutionists will have to fit it somehow into their mythical Tree of Life. dragons -----------------A pig with four legs and two wings on its back, of course - have you never seen one?
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
NoNukes writes: guess what? There are no flying pigs. But they may have existed in the past. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
A description of a fire-breathing monster ("leviathan") is given in the book of Job 40:20 - 41:25. Sounds pretty much like a dragon to me.
Job 40 20 Canst thou draw out the leviathan with a hook, or canst thou tie his tongue with a cord? 21 Canst thou put a ring in his nose, or bore through his jaw with a buckle?22 Will he make many supplications to thee, or speak soft words to thee? 23 Will he make a covenant with thee, and wilt thou take him to be a servant for ever? 24 Shalt thou play with him as with a bird, or tie him up for thy handmaids? 25 Shall friends cut him in pieces, shall merchants divide him? 26 Wilt thou fill nets with his skin, and the cabins of fishes with his head? 27 Lay thy hand upon him: remember the battle, and speak no more. 28 Behold his hope shall fail him, and in the sight of all he shall be cast down. Job 41 I will not stir him up, like one that is cruel: for who can resist my countenance?2 Who hath given me before that I should repay him? All things that are under heaven are mine. 3 I will not spare him, nor his mighty words, and framed to make supplication. 4 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can go into the midst of his mouth? 5 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. 6 His body is like molten shields, shut close up with scales pressing upon one another. 7 One is joined to another, and not so much as any air can come between them: 8 They stick one to another and they hold one another fast, and shall not be separated. 9 His sneezing is like the shining of fire, and his eyes like the eyelids of the morning. 10 Out of his mouth go forth lamps, like torches of lighted fire. 11 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, like that of a pot heated and boiling. 12 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame cometh forth out of his mouth. 13 In his neck strength shall dwell, and want goeth before his face. 14 The members of his flesh cleave one to another: he shall send lightnings against him, and they shall not be carried to another place. 15 His heart shall be as hard as a stone, and as firm as a smith's anvil. 16 When he shall raise him up, the angels shall fear, and being affrighted shall purify themselves. 17 When a sword shall lay at him, it shall not be able to hold, nor a spear, nor a breastplate. 18 For he shall esteem iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. 19 The archer shall not put him to flight, the stones of the sling are to him like stubble. 20 As stubble will he esteem the hammer, and he will laugh him to scorn who shaketh the spear. 21 The beams of the sun shall be under him, and he shall strew gold under him like mire. 22 He shall make the deep sea to boil like a pot, and shall make it as when ointments boil. 23 A path shall shine after him, he shall esteem the deep as growing old. 24 There is no power upon earth that can be compared with him who was made to fear no one. 25 He beholdeth every high thing, he is king over all the children of pride. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes: That isn't how it works. You can't just "invent" a branch. By definition, a branch has to be connected to something. Where would you connect the flying pig? You can't just connect it to the other pigs because the other pigs only have four legs. What branch has four-legged animals with wings? What you do is to right back and assume there must have existed a dinosaur with four legs and wings (this is allowable, because as Gould pointed out, as the so-called Tree of lIfe contains many assumptions). Even though their are no fossils or remains found yet for such a creature, you assume it must have existed and fill in the "gap" to the flying pig with a provisional branch until the evidence shows up. As the evidence appears, you can the replace parts of the provisional branch will a real branch (or as "real" as evolution can get). Trust me, it's all very scientific and it will work - just like it did for the unicorn. There exist humans with arms and legs missing - how do you think these people fit into a nested hierarchy?
Bats didn't grow wings out of their ribs. Have you read the thread at all? Their forelimbs adapted into wings while our forelimbs adapted into arms with grasping hands, whales' forelimbs adapted into swimming fins and pigs' forelimbs adapted into legs for walking on all fours. They're all the same forelimbs adapted to different environments. Stop this very silly talk. Forelimbs don't evolve into fins and wings - it's impossible.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
RAZD writes:
If flying pigs don't exist, explain the photo in post #160.
Show me the evidence of a flying pig and then we can discuss it. The homologous bones are shown in different colors so that even school children can see their similarities. No doubt they could. And you might even be able to brainwash those gullible and naive children into believing that such similarities mean evolution is true. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Job can be regarded as an historical document. You reject it as such due to prejudice. The Hobbit has a far better description of a dragon, certainly one more believable then thinking Job is talking of a dragon. The Leviathan is describe as a marine creature that breathed fire and smoke, but it could have led to legends about land-based dragons. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
No fossils of Leviathan have been found yet. Since it was a sea-monster, the chances of finding the remains of one may be small.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
If we didn't have Bombardier beetles roaming about, no one would believe they ever existed.
Speaking of which, I wonder what nested hierarchy they fit into? Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
The dragon depicted in your post doesn't look like a dinosaur, but like some kind of sea-monster ... with fore and hind legs added as an after-thought (as are the two gold balls it is holding). It could be a depiction of a Leviathan, which is described in the book of Job as a marine monster that breathed fire and smoke (ie, a dragon).
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
qs writes:
Good point. In that case, maybe it's only a matter of time before the remains or a fossil of a Leviathan is found! Wouldn't that be exciting?! Yet a very, very large percentage of the existing known fossils are of sea critters. In fact the chances of a sea critter getting fossilized is higher than for a land critter. That is why we have so many fossilized whale skeletons and shark teeth and fish and many sea reptiles and coral and even fossilized casts of seaweed. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
A great deal of the Bible is a reliable historical document. Only a fool would consider Job an historical document. It is written as a fantasy. That is not prejudice but rather a conclusion based on the story itself. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
coyote writes: You haven't shown even the slightest rudimentary understanding of the topic. Trusting you would be like trusting a three-year-old to fly an Airbus. Your words are like rocks hurled at my fragile, egg-shell mind.
You're no judge of what's possible. How do you explain the similarity between a bat's wing and a human hand?
Very easily - a common designer. Notice how very different buildings can have very similar design features. Incidentally, it's interesting that evolutionists are quick to point out similarities between certain creatures, but are rather slow when it comes to considering the differences. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
A bombardier beetle has no evolutionary history (unsurprisingly), so how can it fit into a nested hierarchy and the Tree of Life?
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