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Author Topic:   Y.E.C. Model: Was there rapid evolution and speciation post flood?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 369 of 518 (810790)
06-01-2017 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by mike the wiz
06-01-2017 3:17 PM


Re: falling into place
Mike writes:
yes, I quite understand, creationism and creationists clearly affect you in some way and terribly annoy you in a way inconsistent with your attitudes to other beliefs. It is a wonder for you always seemed to be a pluralist and would recommend various religions and creeds of all types and diversity and speak of them with a kind of fondness as though recommending I believe in them, but it seems there is one particular creed/belief you really do have a prejudice towards, and that is the belief that the Lord God really did create the universe.
Yawn.
Come on Mike, I am a Christian and so yes I believe that God created the universe. But I know for a fact that it was certainly not done as depicted in the Bible myths.
And Creationism does not annoy me any more than the little kid that can't go to sleep unless I look under the bed to make sure nothing is hiding there. But Creationism and in particular Young Earth Creationism is simply as silly and childish as fearing the monster under the bed.
Mike writes:
That's why I use the term, "crime of creationism". It is sarcasm, because it is a dig at the way some evolutionists treat creationists, with the kind of contempt most people might only reserve for Bundy or Hitler.
And of course you are just making shit up there Mike as always. The reaction to Creationism is not contempt, rather one of humor and a knowing chuckle.
Mike writes:
I mean when it comes down to it, what is so repulsive to you about believing God created all of the wonderful things in nature? Is this something worthy of insult, even though I am not harming anyone else by believing this? Arguably a materialistic tornado-in-a-junkyard creating a 747 jet, is at least as absurd and worthy of derision, and both worldviews could play the derision-game.
Nothing about believing God created all, seen and unseen is repulsive to me. And certainly yes, only a Creationist conman could even create something as silly and worthy of derision as nonsense of tornado-in-a-junkyard creating a 747 jet.
It is the idea that the creation myths that are found in the Bible were ever meant to be taken seriously or factually that I find so silly.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 3:17 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 3:41 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 371 of 518 (810792)
06-01-2017 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by mike the wiz
06-01-2017 3:41 PM


Re: falling into place
Mike writes:
But I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions. Does that mean you don't have any specific answers to those things I put to you?
Sorry but I haven't seen anything resembling a real question from you.
Try again.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 3:41 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:13 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 373 of 518 (810795)
06-01-2017 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by mike the wiz
06-01-2017 4:13 PM


Re: falling into place
Yup, as I said, no reasonable questions.
Mike, any reasonable debate about Young Earth or Creationism has been over for several hundred years.
The reality and facts are settled.
There is no YEC model.
There was no Biblical Flood.
Genesis tales are folk tales, myths and "Just So Stories".

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:13 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 375 of 518 (810798)
06-01-2017 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by mike the wiz
06-01-2017 4:28 PM


Re: falling into place
Mike writes:
So the answer is there isn't anything more to debate to your mind than assertions, of which you have now provided some more?
"I'm sorry your honour, he doesn't seem to understand the question can I re-phrase it? .....can you provide an argument as to the dozen or so claims you have made in this thread other than to just SAY them?"
Judge; "Over-ruled, the witness is clearly high on drugs or something, we shall go no further with this line of questioning...can't you tell mikey lawyer, you're simply a silly person that only accepts nonsense and are equatable to a flat earth believer because the witness says so. hahaha."
*the People laugh*
mikey; "that's great news for when I plead innocence in my murder case next week, now don't forget your honour, when my client says he's innocent, he SAID that he was innocent so you must let him go free."
*the people laugh*
And Mike posts all he has ever posted, word salad and mental masturbation.
Reality wins Mike and Creationists NEVER post anything related to reality.
Perhaps if a there is ever a Creationist who post anything even remotely related to evidence then there will be something reasonable to debate.
Until then, enjoy your fantasies.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:28 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:41 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 377 of 518 (810804)
06-01-2017 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by mike the wiz
06-01-2017 4:41 PM


Re: falling into place
Mike writes:
I digress into word salad, which means I am speaking fantasy again, I guess that means that "reality" is a person after all. And His name is Jesus Christ!
Yup. just more mental masturbation and word salad. Nothing relevant to the topic as always from you Mike.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by mike the wiz, posted 06-01-2017 4:41 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 396 of 518 (810862)
06-02-2017 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Faith
06-02-2017 8:33 AM


Re: falling into place
Faith writes:
But as I keep saying, if the original immune system had all the beneficial alleles that are now out there in the form of mutants, it would have had a much more reliable and concentrated protective effect because possessed by all individuals.
Except Faith, evidence including DNA from modern humans that would have been alive before and at the time Adam would have been alive show that your imagined scenario is simply wrong.
Reality trumps fantasy even if the fantasy is a Bible story.
What is needed is those YECs claiming to be scientists to produce DNA evidence from humans that would have been contemporary or before Adam that show any such Super Genome.
But they haven't.
And it does not exist.
And YEC is as dead a concept as the "Fall" or "The Flood".

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Faith, posted 06-02-2017 8:33 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 427 of 518 (823014)
11-05-2017 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 426 by starman
11-05-2017 2:38 AM


starman writes:
If all the kinds were on the ark, then the millions of species today had to have come from those kinds. We know the timeframe so it had to be fast. That means evolving was fast in the former nature.
What former nature? The flood was supposed to have happened only about 4000 years ago. That's almost just yesterday. That is not former but present.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 2:38 AM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 434 of 518 (823054)
11-05-2017 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by starman
11-05-2017 1:22 PM


most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
Are you really that utterly ignorant or are you like all Creationists just a handicapped?
starman writes:
If there was a different nature, (and science doesn't know either way) then we could not use features of THIS nature like radioactive decay to ascertain ages.
How handicapped Creationists are and how pitiful.
Change leaves evidence. If there was a different nature those of us not in the Christian Cult of Ignorance could see the evidence.
We had the same conversation that last time you made a hit-n-run appearance and in fact during every one of your hit-n-run appearances.
Those of us who are neither stupid or dishonest can look at the evidence of the waste products from the Oklo reactor and see that radioactive decay was the same about two billion years ago as it was today. We can look at the spectrum from stars and see that radioactive processes were the same many billions of years ago as they are today.
starman writes:
My opinion at the moment is that the flood was somewhere around the KT layer era. That is of course some almost 70 million imaginary years in so called science time!
And more ignorance, pitiful ignorance, woeful ignorance and utter dishonesty.
The imaginary Biblical flood, regardless of which of the two mutually exclusive flood myths got included in the Bible stories, claims that there were men and women and cattle and sheep and pigs and ravens and doves and lions and tigers and bears and ohmys that existed from the beginning, regardless of which of the two creation myths that got included in the Bible stories yet there is not a single fossil of any of the imaginary kinds mentioned in any of the Bible stories below the K/T boundary.
So we have evidence that the radioactive decay is the same today as it was billions of years ago (and so the same as it was at the time of the K/T boundary) and evidence that none of the Biblical kinds got killed anywhere near the time of the K/T event and so once again that is simply more evidence that the Biblical flood never happened.
starman writes:
Wherever a nature change occurred is where we leave off being able to determine actual time for. So if a change was say, 4400 years ago, all dates beyond that determined by using decay would be bogus.
It might be where the utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest leave off being able to determine actual time but it is not a problem for those of us who are not utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest.
Those of us who are not Creationists are capable of thinking.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:22 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 4:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 443 of 518 (823075)
11-05-2017 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 438 by starman
11-05-2017 4:35 PM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
starman writes:
quote:
Are you really that utterly ignorant or are you like all Creationists just a handicapped?
That sounds like an insult.
quote:
How handicapped Creationists are and how pitiful.
That too.
Sorry that the truth insults you.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 4:35 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:54 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 446 of 518 (823085)
11-05-2017 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by RAZD
11-05-2017 5:53 PM


Re: Wrong again
What is so funny about Creationists is that they can make statements like that and then feel insulted when it is pointed out that they are either butt ignorant or totally and utterly dishonest or most likely both.
starman writes:
Man and most animals could not leave remains then probably.
Yet we have literally millions of fossils of animals from below the KT boundary but not ONE example of ANY of the "kinds" listed in the Bible stories. And if the flood was meant to kill off man and animal where are the remains?
The idea that the Biblical Flood ever happened is at best laughable.
Reality says starman is simply spouting shit yet again.
People like Faith and starman are an embarrassment to Christianity and the greatest force to drive people away from Jesus' message.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 5:53 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:56 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 451 of 518 (823110)
11-06-2017 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by starman
11-06-2017 1:54 AM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
starman writes:
Your opinion of God's people or truth actually doesn't much matter to me...as insulting as you would like to be.
God's people? What a laugh. What you mean is the Christian Cult of Ignorance not God's people.
Also, the reality and facts still exist; there was no Garden of Eden, no Special Creation, no Flood, no Exodus, no Conquest of Canaan and evolution is still a fact and the Theory of Evolution is still the only available explanation and the Earth is old and the Universe is even older and decay rates have not changed and time is the same at the stars as it is here.
It really is that simple.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:54 AM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:14 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 460 of 518 (823144)
11-06-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by starman
11-06-2017 1:14 PM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
starman writes:
No garden? You think you know this..how? No flood? What in tarnaton are you talking about? You thought you had evidence for those sick little claims?
No, of course we do not think we have evidence to show there was no Garden of Eden, no Biblical Flood, no "former nature", we know we have the evidence and it is overwhelming.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:14 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 465 of 518 (823187)
11-07-2017 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 464 by NoNukes
11-07-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Starman fails
NN writes:
The only reality is Creation Science; knowledge based firmly on Genesis.
Gotta hurt then that the two Creation myths in Genesis are contradictory and mutually exclusive and even describe two different Gods doing the Creating.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by NoNukes, posted 11-07-2017 9:49 AM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 12:52 PM jar has replied
 Message 474 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:34 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 467 of 518 (823191)
11-07-2017 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by RAZD
11-07-2017 12:52 PM


Re: Starman fails
RAZD writes:
Why stop there, every faith belief system has some version of creation -- what makes one special and the others mundane mythology? Ask any believer and it is the specific faith they believe, because they believe it.
Well most religions are smart enough to just have one myth, not two mutually exclusive and contradictory myths.
Maybe that is what makes the Judaic religions special.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 12:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 473 of 518 (823210)
11-07-2017 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by starman
11-07-2017 4:24 PM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
We have human DNA from before the Garden of Eden existed, tzi existed at the time Adam supposedly lived, the Jomon culture existed before during and after the imaginary Biblical flood stories were supposed to have happened, Egypt existed before, during and after the imaginary flood and no one even noticed any unusual flood or Exodus.
There is no such thing as any "former nature" and no one has ever presented any evidence of any "former nature" and once again reality shows that creationism and young earth are simply the province of the deluded and the dishonest.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:24 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:35 PM jar has replied

  
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