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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Percy
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Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 241 of 899 (819326)
09-09-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-09-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
Faith writes:
What if there is a God who made it all...
Well, in that case, since this thread is titled Evidence of the flood, I presume you'd present your evidence for God creating the flood.
...and your atheistic science just completely misses it?
There's no such thing as atheistic science, just as there's no such thing as atheistic car repair or atheistic fry cooking. This site exists to discuss the claim that creation science *is* science, in the real sense of the word. Claims of "God Did It" lose the debate out of hand, unless one begins introducing scientific evidence of God.
But not here, because this thread is about Evidence of the flood. If any participants begin introducing serious scientific flood evidence (not Harvey the Hawk) then I'll move the thread to Geology and the Great Flood.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 242 of 899 (819336)
09-09-2017 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-09-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it?
(First it should be agnostic science, because it neither validates nor disproves god/s -- because it can't test non-natural phenomena by definition.)
What if there is a God/s who made it all, ...
... the ancient earth and the even older universe, with all the laws of physics and chemistry etc -- created so that life would form and evolve -- and your personal delusion completely misses it?
What if it is all illusion?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 11:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 243 of 899 (819337)
09-09-2017 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by jar
09-09-2017 8:20 AM


Re: Why respond
There is not just a point but rather a necessity. It is essential to continue presenting reality when fantasies are presented as fact; if for no other reason then the fact that someone who is honest and not willfully ignorant may well read the posts and realize that what they have been told is utter nonsense.
Indeed, when participants are talking past each other, as is almost always the case with faith, then the audience are those behind them in the wings.
Thanks for the reminder

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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Tangle
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Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 244 of 899 (819339)
09-09-2017 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by RAZD
09-09-2017 5:12 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
RAZD writes:
(First it should be agnostic science, because it neither validates nor disproves god/s -- because it can't test non-natural phenomena by definition.)
Science doesn't have or require an adjective. In fact to add one destroys its value as a methodology.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 245 of 899 (819342)
09-09-2017 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by RAZD
09-09-2017 5:12 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
Why are you addressing me about this? I was answering Coyote who said all science is atheistic and he was responding to an ongoing discussion about that question. I simply answered Coyote's point and what I said has nothing to do with anything else.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 246 of 899 (819343)
09-09-2017 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Percy
09-09-2017 12:31 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
I was answering Coyote. Read in context.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Percy, posted 09-09-2017 12:31 PM Percy has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 247 of 899 (819344)
09-09-2017 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Percy
09-09-2017 7:43 AM


I'm repeating either that there is evidence for the Flood or the evidence itself in this series of posts, and since I'm getting back assertions that there is no evidence blah blah blah I think my responses are quite in order.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Percy, posted 09-09-2017 7:43 AM Percy has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 899 (819345)
09-09-2017 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by ringo
09-09-2017 12:05 PM


When He said "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed" He was indeed saying that would have been preferable. We are all in that position now, we are not going to get Thomas' special audience, so it is far better to believe the witnesses than stubbornly refuse to believe unless we are given direct proof. You are wrong, Jesus WAS saying it would have been better.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 249 of 899 (819346)
09-09-2017 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
09-09-2017 6:55 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
I was answering Coyote who said all science is atheistic...
It was pointed out that science is agnostic, rather than atheistic.
I agree that atheistic is not the best term. Perhaps "secular" would be a more appropriate term:
Secular: of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 250 of 899 (819348)
09-09-2017 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Coyote
09-09-2017 7:06 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Coyote, posted 09-09-2017 7:06 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Coyote, posted 09-09-2017 7:26 PM Faith has replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 251 of 899 (819349)
09-09-2017 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Faith
09-09-2017 7:21 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him?
And what tools does science wield that would detect gods?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 7:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 7:31 PM Coyote has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 252 of 899 (819351)
09-09-2017 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Coyote
09-09-2017 7:26 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
And what tools does science wield that would detect gods?
None of course, which is one of the themes of this thread. God is known by other means than physical science because He Himself is not physical. But the question still stands, what if He exists and He made the whole physical universe and science is ignoring Him? You're going to get a lot of things wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 253 of 899 (819352)
09-09-2017 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
09-09-2017 6:59 PM


Yet you never present any evidence Faith
Faith writes:
I'm repeating either that there is evidence for the Flood or the evidence itself in this series of posts, and since I'm getting back assertions that there is no evidence blah blah blah I think my responses are quite in order.
You keep making that claim yet fail to actually present any evidence or even any explanation of how a flood could actually do what is seen in ANY evidence that others have presented or that has be found over the last several hundred years.
The Biblical flood never happened.
Special creation never happened.
The Fall never happened.
The Earth is billions of years old.
Reality says you are wrong.
The Bible says you are wrong.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 254 of 899 (819353)
09-09-2017 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Faith
09-09-2017 7:21 PM


Utterly unnecessary gods should be ignored!
Faith writes:
But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him?
Utterly unnecessary suppositions should be left out.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 255 of 899 (819354)
09-09-2017 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Faith
09-09-2017 4:33 AM


Re: The seas came in and the seas went out (repeatedly)
Repeating part of my previous message:
Minnemooseus, in message 219 writes:
Faith, in message 216 writes:
The evidence doesn't show repeated local floods at all, the strata are way too consistent for that, as are the fossils.
A short argument, without getting into the countless other details outside of your one, one year flood model -
The evidence DOES show repeated major sea transgressions and regressions, none which covered all the land surface, at least (maybe) way back in the pre-Cambrian.
Faith, replying to message 219 in message 224 writes:
The evidence is no doubt some completely circumstantial facts that are imaginatively but falsely interpreted into seas.
The evidence of major sea transgressions and regressions are the vast areas of (pretty) consistent strata that is your primary evidence for your own "great flood". Let's call these major sea transgressions and regressions the "pretty big floods (but not the great flood)". And you can find multiple incidences of strata resulting from individual "pretty big floods", one above the other, quite possibly with other non-marine sediments etc. in between the "pretty big flood" events.
AT THIS POINT I WAS GOING TO PUT IN THAT WONDERFUL WALTHER'S LAW GRAPHIC, BUT IT HAS BEEN LOST TO THE DEMISE OF FREE PHOTOBUCKET.
If you can remember that Walther's Law graphic's stratigraphy, imagine having multiples of that diagram's stratigraphy stacked on top of each other. That is a diagrammatic representation of what is actually found in the geologic strata.
Critiques by other real geologists also most welcome.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Tiny tweak.
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Another tiny tweak.

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