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Author Topic:   True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 19 of 154 (818441)
08-28-2017 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 9:49 AM


It is surprising that so many people seem to be so sure of their views...When you see Richard Dawkins admitting that intelligent design is possible
Which is it - are they 'so sure' or do they leave room for tentativity?
The evidence used is inconclusive and not absolute which most people have a really hard time accepting.
It is conclusive.
And something being taught as fact in public schools should be absolute and conclusive like F=ma.
Even though it's not actually true? For a start f is proportional to the product of mass and acceleration - and it is only if relativity doesn't exist. Otherwise the complexities of velocity and acceleration on mass have to be taken into account as well as issues of time and length.
That which is taught as fact is that life on earth has changed over time. This is as absolute and conclusive as F=ma.
The theory that explains this fact is taught, factually, as 'what scientists believe' along with why they believe it - or the like. This too, is indisputable.
Like why don't we see thousands of intermadiate fossils of humans?
There's no reason to suppose we should. There's no reason to suppose we should find fossils at all.
What kind of predictions have been made to support the theory?
Genetics - Darwin had no idea about it but knew for his theory to hold there must be some kind of unit of inheritance.
Genetic dating and radiometric dating of fossils, as predicted, largely concur with one another.
There's two.
What are the best forms of evidence supporting the theory?
The genetics as above, the dating of fossils, the geographic distribution of fossils, observations of biological life with small generational lives, mathematics and computer modelling and so on. All point towards the same direction.
I give more details in my open thread Confidence in evolutionary science

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Porkncheese, posted 08-27-2017 9:49 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 68 of 154 (818740)
09-01-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Porkncheese
09-01-2017 2:38 PM


Re: ToE admits defeat
ToE has collapsed under its own admissions of speculation being drawn from fossil evidence that is very fragmented.
The theory of evolution states that populations change as a result of allele frequency changes, this can be adaptive as a result of selective forces sometimes collectively called 'natural selection'.
The theory explains the fact. The fact is that populations change over time.
Fossil evidence is used to reconstruct history. Science is used, including the theory of evolution, to help reconstruct that history. Natural history is NOT the theory of evolution. Theories are explanations. Histories are different things. Reconstructing historical events from pre-history is fraught with difficulty. But we can still use the theory of evolution to predict that life on earth is related by common ancestry and each piece of evidence we have found so far is consistent with this prediction being correct.
There is a theory of common descent, which explains exceptionally well the patterns in the fossils, biogeography and so on - allowing for predictions on what will be found where. The specific details are historical facts which are often, for obvious reasons, less certain.
Obviously not enough data to draw factual conclusions from
Which is why scientists don't draw strong conclusions from things. They may develop hypotheses.

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 Message 59 by Porkncheese, posted 09-01-2017 2:38 PM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 79 of 154 (818751)
09-01-2017 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Porkncheese
09-01-2017 8:42 PM


Re: The truth is hard for some to swallow
The simple fact that we don't know everything has really ruffled feathers.
I remain unruffled. It is, after all, a central part of my philosophy and an integral part of science. There'd be no profession if we claimed we know everything!
Even against dozens of fanatics, one man with only a basic knowledge of ToE is able to expose the fiction which is littered throughout this fairytale and expose what is most definately a pseudoscience.
Do you have his email address - perhaps you can invite him here?
Anyways I'll leave the rest of the debate to the fanatics on both sides and go back to a real science which doesn't accept the theoretical without it being shown in practice.
I've presented some of what has been shown in practice, you are at liberty to engage with them. You seem more interested in dismissing the debate on the rather unscientific grounds of 'feather ruffling' and calling us fanatics.
Where assumptions lead to fatal catastrophies.
Assumptions are a vital part of scientific enquiry. One makes assumptions, then uses the assumptions to generate a theory that anticipates the data, collects the data, then examines the data and sees if the theory is consistent with what is seen. There are no fatal consequences in play for having a theory falsified - or even proposing falsifiable theories.
Where the laws of physics are truthful facts that remain constant and are never in doubt or questioned.
This is not a scientific position. See the title, and you very thesis in this thread. Enjoy your snow trip.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Porkncheese, posted 09-01-2017 8:42 PM Porkncheese has not replied

  
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