The TRVE history of the Flood...

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You DO mean the tilted strata to the north of the fault? How could it not happen afterward if the vertical mile drop happened afterward?

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You are going to have to explain why you are think that. So far as I can see the tilt happened long before the Claron formation was deposited and the displacement which split the Claron formation obviously happened after the Claron formation was deposited (probably long after)

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Hm. After reading the rest of your post I'm going to leave it at that. I made my case, you are just floundering around trying to find something to object to.

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I guess you have to say that rather than admit that I demolished your "case".

Your response makes it rather obvious that RAZD hit the mark.

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...all it shows is that Science has a fetish about classifying things to fit the ToE.

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Which means that you were wrong and you are telling silly lies to try to cover it up.

You guys are SO clever at twisting things to make yourself the winner. How childish.

Look in the mirror Faith. You twist all of reality to force it into your fantasy. Sorry it doesn't fit.Your cognitive dissonance is showing, Faith. The whole science community is involved in a massive conspiracy coverup and only you have sussed out the TRVTH. The insults confirm it -- trying to minimize the dissonance by denigrating the source.enoughEnjoy

As usual you accuse others of what you are doing. Except that your attempt was in no way clever. Which is why it took no cleverness to catch you at it.The fact is that you had no idea of the diversity of trilobites. When RAZD showed you the diversity you simply claimed that the classification was wrong. As if you had an objectively correct classification rather than ignorance. But, you see we know that you do not. Your ignorance makes that impossible.

Not to terminate the discussion or anything, but before going any further here, it should be noted that the Hurrican Fault IS the limit of the Colorado Plateau.The other side of the fault is considered to be the Basin and Range Province which has undergone a very different geological history than the Colorado Plateau. The fact that we see various forms of deformation at the edge of the CP probably isn't of importance here except to point out that there were things going on in other regions. I wouldn't be concerned about seeing some folding due to earlier deformation at the edge of the CP.However, there almost certainly is some deformation of the Claron adjacent to the Hurricane Fault. I'm not sure if it shows in the large cross section, but I'm pretty certain that the edge of the Claron near the fault is down-warped due to drag along the fault. I can't find much on the Claron itself, but other formations do show this. It is a local effect. Any tilting toward the CP (the other direction) is likely due to earlier tectonic edge effects. This could get pretty technical.

...duplicateEdited by Faith, : No reason given.

I realized I did want to answer more of this. What upper strata? The strata from the Tapeats on up? That makes no sense, so what DO you mean? I have no idea if you are talking about the same thing I am but it sounds like you aren't. I used to use Paint to illustrate stuff but on this computer I haven't set it up and don't know if I will. The Tapeats, the lowest layer of the canyon strata, mounds up over the angled blocks below the unconformity, the unconformity itself mounding up over it. The entire stack from the Tapeats up to the Kaibab follows that mound and the canyon cuts into the Kaibab at the very top. Is this what you are talking about? It doesn't sound like it but who knows.But since it is what I am talking about I'll just reiterate that the mounded shape of the whole block of strata, Tapeats to Kaibab, could not have occurred until after the unconformity was formed because the strata would not have climbed over it as they did, they had to be raised up by the upheaval itself. The immense pressures involved in the action I'm describing would be enough to lithify anything, but the idea that a chunk of quartzite fifteen feet in diameter was just eroded off the Shinumo and then covered in sand REALLY doesn't make sense. How did it get moved a quarter of a mile? And how did it just get "eroded" off the layer anyway? All that implies humongous powerful movement of come sort. Which is nicely provided in my scenario: Tectonic pressure tilts the lower strata into blocks, pushing up the upper strata which were already laid down three miles deep (causing the uppermost layers to crack and opening up the canyon etc etc etc), the whole basement section sliding beneath the upper (Tapeats on up) a quarter of a mile, breaking off the huge hunk of quartzite and carrying a quarter of a mile as the whole lower mass moved horizontally under the upper. This also opened the volcano beneath it all, the magma of which formed the granite and the schist. Etc. Massive earth movement I'm talking about. Good thing Noah and family were still riding the water halfway across the world (though there were probably comparable earth movements going on there too).It's beautiful, it's elegant, it accounts for all the observed phenomena.

That's very informative, seeing it as the end of the Colorado Plateau in particular which fits it into my scenario too, whereas before I didn't have a picture of how and when the plateau had formed. Also interesting the idea that the Claron was probably deformed adjacent to the fault, although since the strata beneath it are upwarped I don't know why the edge of the Claron would be downwarped.

The mental masturbation you go through to shoehorn a myth is entertaining, but to turn it around and accuse others of doing it, is dishonest and shameful.

As I said, it is a local feature that is shared by other formations beneath.As to the regional tilt to the east, I tried to treat that with the observation that there were things going on in the Great Basin area that caused this regional arch. We could get into it, but the discussion can get pretty deep, and really, it doesn't mean much to the overall discussion here.The takeaway is that the Colorado Plateau, even though it is not as you describe it, tells us very little about what is going on in the rest of the world. To focus on this one region is misleading.

This is a dire example of what religion can do to a brain. Fortunately, it's all pretty harmless. For now.

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What upper strata? The strata from the Tapeats on up? That makes no sense, so what DO you mean?

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I mean that - as anyone with eyes can see - at the edge of the Canyon the Supergroup tilts up (towards the Canyon) while the layers above it dip. It's really, really obvious. How could you possible miss it ? Even if I hadn't mentioned it.

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I have no idea if you are talking about the same thing I am but it sounds like you aren't. I used to use Paint to illustrate stuff but on this computer I haven't set it up and don't know if I will. The Tapeats, the lowest layer of the canyon strata, mounds up over the angled blocks below the unconformity, the unconformity itself mounding up over it

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As should be quite obvious I am talking about the original tilt of the Supergroup, not the (obviously later) "mounding".

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The immense pressures involved in the action I'm describing would be enough to lithify anything, but the idea that a chunk of quartzite fifteen feet in diameter was just eroded off the Shinumo and then covered in sand REALLY doesn't make sense. How did it get moved a quarter of a mile?

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Only the geological history could possibly tell us that - or even if it was moved a quarter of a mile. But I will note that boulders are moved in various ways, sometimes for far greater distances.

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And how did it just get "eroded" off the layer anyway?

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I'd imagine the same way most boulders are eroded out of rock. Again, only a detailed investigation of the region could tell us, but it is hardly something that is a priori unlikely,Which is more than can be said for your scenario.Why, for instance would the mounding affect the upper strata when the original tilt of the Supergroup did not ? How do you reconcile the fact that there lava that formed the Cardenas was coming to the surface while the Dox formation was being deposited ? Shouldn't we see a lot more metamorphism in your scenario ? And really your idea of how the boulder got there makes no sense at all.As an explanation for the boulder it is hardly simpler than mine which requires nothing special at all.

Bad ideas can turn into bad decisions that can have dire consequences for the rest of us , we see these bad decisions all around us.

Oh wow, now I can't point out their childishness? Wow/