Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,807 Year: 3,064/9,624 Month: 909/1,588 Week: 92/223 Day: 3/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 397 of 466 (641506)
11-19-2011 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 396 by ICANT
11-19-2011 6:38 PM


Re: The Goats were followers of Jesus.
ICANT writes:
Now don't get me wrong I believe we are supposed to take care of our own and we practice that in the church I pastor. Not one member goes lacking of anything they need.
And that is the position of a GOAT.
You think you are to take care of your own. That is exactly what a GOAT will say.
Read Matthew 25.
Have you ever read the Great Commandment?
Have you actually ever read the Bible?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by ICANT, posted 11-19-2011 6:38 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 11-19-2011 7:25 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 399 of 466 (641509)
11-19-2011 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
11-19-2011 7:25 PM


Re: Least of these and yeast of Pharisees
It is irrelevant whether they change or not; the charge is to do it.
You may think he reads the Bible, but what most folk seem to consider "reading the Bible" are silly Bible Study classes where quotes are taken out of context and even the crap called "proof texts" are used.
Reading the Bible is starting at page one and reading the whole thing, and actually paying attention to what it really says; seeing the contradictions, errors, falsehoods, fables, fantasy, propaganda, marketing and epic stories.
It means reading the Bible just like you would any other collection of literature.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 11-19-2011 7:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by bluescat48, posted 11-19-2011 9:47 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 401 of 466 (641515)
11-19-2011 10:17 PM


Summary
No one honestly knows who will be saved, but we can say a few things about what will be required.
First, it will not matter whether or not someone is a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Animist, Diest, Atheist, Satanist, Agnostic, a follower of the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Germanic, Norse Gods, or of Confucius or Mencius.
What you believe will be totally irrelevant.
What you profess will be totally irrelevant.
What Club you belong to will be totally irrelevant.
Nonsense like "Being Born Again", getting "Saved", "Being touched by the Holy Spirit" are nothing more than marketing tactics; prattle of the Carny Snake Oil salesman.
You will though be judged on what you did during your life, did you feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, teach the children, protect the helpless, clothe the naked.
It's likely we will all be judged to have failed.
If we are then pardoned it will be through God's Grace, but we will never know that decision until after we have died and been tried.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 406 of 466 (812008)
06-14-2017 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Phat
06-14-2017 5:49 AM


and the answer is????????
Phat writes:
Does not the idea that Jesus is the way to God allow us amoebas to glimpse insight into a Being far superior to ourselves?
Not in anyway I can see. Here is an opportunity to provided the reasoning and support for that assertion. What does Jesus is the way to God even mean?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 06-14-2017 5:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 06-14-2017 12:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 408 of 466 (812060)
06-14-2017 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Phat
06-14-2017 12:30 PM


Re: and the answer is????????
Yet nowhere in there did you offer any response or reasoned support for your assertions or explain what Jesus is the way to God even means.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 06-14-2017 12:30 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 3:05 PM jar has replied
 Message 416 by Phat, posted 06-15-2017 9:16 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 410 of 466 (812078)
06-14-2017 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
06-14-2017 3:05 PM


Re: and the answer is????????
Faith writes:
It means that if you don't believe He is God the Son incarnate who died for your sins you have no way to God.
Yet the Bible has Jesus saying that is simply bullshit and a sure way to damnation.
For your sake I hope that Jesus is simply fun'in folk.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 3:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 7:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 412 of 466 (812096)
06-14-2017 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
06-14-2017 7:58 PM


Re: and the answer is????????
LOL
Faith I have quoted it many times and it is certainly not an editorial insert into John but rather Matthew 25, the Sheep and Goats (and the goats will all be Christians).
In fact over the decades I've even discussed that passage with you. But to make you happy, here it is yet again:
Matthew 25 writes:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
This is reported as Jesus speaking directly, not the editorial ambiguity found in the revisionist Gospel of John.
Remember Faith, many of us here have actually read the Bible, not just what the Apologists make up.
And there are other similar passages I have posted and commented on and if you really want to learn we can go over them again.
In fact Faith, had you actually read this thread you would have noticed that in Message 7, the seventh post in this thread, I quoted the same verse and pointed out that according to Jesus there is nothing about professing GOD or Jesus, nothing about being a Jew or Christian, nothing about being religious involved in the question of who will be saved. In fact, many who profess a belief in Jesus, who are good Christians, Jews or Muslims, will certainly be Goats and not sheep while many atheists and agnostics will certainly be sheep and not goats.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 7:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 8:14 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 414 of 466 (812099)
06-14-2017 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by Faith
06-14-2017 8:14 PM


Re: and the answer is????????
Fine then Faith. Keep on down your path.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 8:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 8:17 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 417 of 466 (812178)
06-15-2017 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Phat
06-15-2017 9:16 AM


Re: and the answer is????????
Phat writes:
Thus, forcing me to explain what the apologists mean simply reinforces your case .
How?
Are you saying that posting what you think "Jesus is the way to God " means weakens your position?
Phat writes:
You know what the apologists say it means.
Actually no Phat, I am totally clueless what they say it means. I've read what they write, heard what they market, but so far it is simply word salad or bumper stickers with no meaning attached.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Phat, posted 06-15-2017 9:16 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 06-16-2017 12:21 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 420 of 466 (812353)
06-16-2017 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by Phat
06-16-2017 12:21 AM


Re: and the answer is????????
Phat writes:
jar writes:
Are you saying that posting what you think "Jesus is the way to God " means weakens your position?
Basically it means to be like Jesus.
We may be making some progress; thanks.
But what does "be like Jesus" mean? Other folk in this very thread say what is necessary is to believe Jesus died to save them; "a Get Outta Hell Free card" in effect. Is that what you mean by "be like Jesus"?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 06-16-2017 12:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 06-16-2017 8:45 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 424 of 466 (812373)
06-16-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by Phat
06-16-2017 8:45 AM


Re: and the answer is????????
Phat writes:
I realize it makes little sense to skate off with a free pass, but keep in mind that another parable had workers who only worked an hour getting as much compensation as those who worked all day.
To me, eternal punishment is extreme even for satan.
But it was not extreme to the folk writing the dialog for the Jesus character in the story.
But the two parables actually have much in common.
The issue is not how much you do, or even what you do, but rather why you do it. Works don't buy you passage but not doing works and doing works for the wrong reason can condemn you according to the story.
The Goats were all believers, all followers, all people who would do anything for Jesus. Jesus tells them, "Sorry Charlie but you just didn't get it."

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 06-16-2017 8:45 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 443 of 466 (812633)
06-18-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Faith
06-18-2017 3:43 PM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
Yet once again reality and truth show that the kinds in the creation myths are simply the result of the ignorance of the authors of the Bible stories and that the myths do not reflect reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Faith, posted 06-18-2017 3:43 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 447 of 466 (812650)
06-19-2017 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Tangle
06-19-2017 4:03 AM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
Kinda interesting but irrelevant to the question of who can be saved.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2017 4:03 AM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 452 of 466 (813112)
06-23-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Phat
06-23-2017 8:08 AM


Re: Back On Topic! Salvation NOT evolution
There are many other such passages, Luke 4 as an example:
Luke 4 writes:
24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.
25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
Which angered his listeners just as telling Christians today that they are not special or chosen over the Muslims and Atheists and Agnostics and Buddhists and Hindus and Satanists and animists angers the Christians.
and Luke six:
Luke 6 writes:
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
that repeats the admonition that it is behavior not belief that is of significance.
Much that the stories claim Jesus said is not reflected in many Christian churches.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 06-23-2017 8:08 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 459 of 466 (822899)
11-03-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by Phat
11-03-2017 9:40 AM


Re: Minnesota Phats and Jar Jar Blinks
Again Phat, it is almost like you did not read past that post. There is a whole bunch of discussion on that very topic in messages that followed.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Phat, posted 11-03-2017 9:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Phat, posted 11-04-2017 12:50 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024