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Author | Topic: Atheists are more intelligent than Religious people | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
But they're all based on the same premise - that intelligence can be measured in some meaningful way.
It is what it is - a series of studies that find the same thing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Well, one of the ways that "we" define intelligence is, "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills." But the ability to acquire knowledge depends very much on one's culture and environment. How would you compare the intelligence of an illiterate tribesman in Ethiopia with the intelligence of a person in suburban USA?
They might be controversial but they measure intelligence in the way we define it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
So what difference does it make how many studies agree if they're all comparing apples with apples?
ringo writes:
I wouldn't. And neither did the studies we're talking about. How would you compare the intelligence of an illiterate tribesman in Ethiopia with the intelligence of a person in suburban USA?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
That doesn't answer the question. If all of the "various ways" assume that they can measure intelligence, why wouldn't they all agree? They compare intelligence - measured in various ways - with religiosity and find a negative correlation. What intelligence tests actually measure is the ability to take tests. That may be useful in choosing candidates for employment or further education, but I don't see how it's useful in determining whether one group is "smarter" than another. Who is more intelligent, an artist or an academic? The academic is likely to do better on tests because that's what his background is. Similarly, a white guy from the suburbs is likely to do better than a black guy from the inner city because that's what his background is.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
You should try it some time. Instead of just blathering the same nonsense in every post, try to actually respond ntelligently.
Awesome ringo, you composed more than a one liner...
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
That's what I said.
These tests are used across the Western world to obtain entry into higher education and jobs... Tangle writes:
I'm not throwing anything away. I have acknowledged their usefulness. You quoted me . What I'm saying is that their usefulness has limits. The fact that a shovel is useful for digging holes doesn't mean you can stand on it to touch the sky.
... you can throw them away as useless if you wish, but they appear to have value in practice.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
On the contrary, the onus is on you to show that the generalization IS appropriate.
But to make any reasonable point out of that generalisation you have to show why in these studies the use of intelligence tests is inappropriate or misleading.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
IQ tests and their equivalents have been used successfully for around 100 years as an effective tool for measuring the ability to take IQ tests and their equivalents.
IQ tests and their equivalents have been used successfully for around 100 years as an effective tool for measuring relative intelligence. Tangle writes:
No. I'm asking you to show that it's reasonable to extrapolate beyond the ability to take the tests. They have some known biases caused by cultural differences. You seem to be making the claim that the studies are fatally flawed because of this. If applicant A scores 10 points higher on an IQ test than applicant B, does that mean applicant A will be a better employee? Maybe, if the job involves taking IQ test but otherwise, why would it?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a copout. Religiously-minded people can still be critical thinkers and can use evidence when there is evidence.
Religiously (belief minded) people are not as enamored of evidence and critical thought as are practical verifiable evidential people.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
"Not negatively related"? That kind of contortion should set off your own alarm bells. Here you job is to show why IQ is not negatively related to religiosity - if that is your claim. You're the one making the claim. It's right there in your topic title: "Atheists are more intelligent than Religious people". I'm just questioning your claim. You're the one who's making the extrapolation from "better at tests" to "more intelligent". The onus is on you to justify that extrapolation. What does "more intelligent" even mean?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Then answer the question.
ringo writes:
Ah, now I understand your problem. What does "more intelligent" even mean?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
No. I didn't ask what intelligence is. I asked: What does MORE intelligent mean? You want me to give you the wiki on intelligence? Really? What are the real-world implications of being "more intelligent"? What impact does it have on your life? What are the concrete results of the number 120 being bigger than the number 110?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
So atheists have higher paying jobs than religious people?
University entrance, higher paid jobs? Tangle writes:
Do you have evidence that atheists are "better" at those things than religious people?
Faster learning, greater ability to understand complex ideas, ability to do hard sums that help us understand the universe, ability to talk shit on internet fora?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
It's your point. Perhaps you should address it yourself. You claimed that "more intelligent" means higher paid jobs. Unless you can back that up, it seems that "more intelligent" is meaningless rhetoric.
I dunno, seems likely but the paper and the thread deals with intelligence and religiosity. Perhaps you could address that?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Try to keep up: You asked for examples of how IQ affected our lives, I gave you a few including that. Now you're attempting to turn the topic away from the actual point which has to do with religiosity not jobs. 1. You claim that "Atheists are more intelligent than Religious people".2. I asked what "more intelligent" means. 3. You gave, as an example, the ability to make more money. IF you could demonstrate that atheists make more money than atheists (on average), then MAYBE that would be because they are more intelligent and your conclusion MIGHT be valid.
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