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Author | Topic: The TRVE history of the Flood... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1700 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
ICANT I don't care about who thought what when. What I argue here is my own understanding of what the Flood would have done based on my own observations.; I don't care who came up with what theory.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Here is a response to Chadwick's PRECAMBRIAN POLLEN IN THE GRAND CANYON A REEXAMINATION. Fossil pollen in Grand Canyon overturns plant evolution - creation.com.
ConclusionThe weight of evidence favours the conclusion that fossil pollen is contained in ‘Precambrian’ shale. This is contrary to expectations based on the accepted geological column. More Precambrian PollenFossils of spores and pollen have been found in the Precambrian Roraima formation, as reported in a 1966 article in the prestigious journal Nature. That means they are at least 1,300 million, or 1.3 billion years ‘out of date’. Pollen paradox - creation.com
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Tangle Member Posts: 9581 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
CRR - I'm not reading anything from a creation 'science' source. Can you point to properly published source?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2499 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle: Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien, Je suis l'esprit ferm.
Pardon if my french is not perfect but I'm sure you get my drift. Edited by CRR, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9581 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5
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CRR - my mind is entirely open, but it's been educated too. Your links are to a discredited organisation that publishes an unreviewed pile of garbage on a website.
This is a science forum, if there's useful information to be discussed it needs to come from a credible scientific source. It's also a forum rule that we discuss stuff here in our own words referring to proper references when we have to. Why not have a go at that? I refer you to the rest of my tag"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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edge Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Conclusion
Only if you ignore the facts that the pollen grains are found on fractures in the rock and do not exhibit darkening of color with age as is normal for older pollen. They also show no compression that should happen with burial under miles (as averred by Faith) of sediments.
The weight of evidence favours the conclusion that fossil pollen is contained in ‘Precambrian’ shale. This is contrary to expectations based on the accepted geological column. More Precambrian Pollen
The first thing I noticed about this occurrence is that nothing has been published since the 1960's when it was first announced.Fossils of spores and pollen have been found in the Precambrian Roraima formation, as reported in a 1966 article in the prestigious journal Nature. That means they are at least 1,300 million, or 1.3 billion years ‘out of date’. Pollen paradox - creation.com Again, there is no flattening of the pollen grains as would be expected of such a strongly metamorphosed rock and it is thought that pollen grains would not even survive such a high temperature metamorphism. Once again, one researcher mentions that ultrasonic cleaning of a sample removed the pollen from the rock suggesting that the grains were confined to fractures in the rock. All the data suggest contamination by percolating meteoric water carrying pollen into a groundwater system. Here is a kind of technical article on the subject: Roraima pollen paradox - RationalWiki
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
In Message 5 Davidjay claims:
quote: This is good to know, because then Davidjay will obviously answer the question I have been prodding him with for a month or so. As posted in Message 3 of this thread (and in a previous thread): Coyote writes: Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr. |
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2585 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
And do see my new signature for further information against evolution and evolutionaries and their fear and flight modus operandi....
Evolutyionists are used to forcing their theory on students and scientists. They are not used to answering any questions on this theory, because it is their religion. And as a religion it must be accepted by faith.... It is not science and it is not logical or rational and has no facts behind it. Evolution is a con and a LIE. A big one, but because it is forced on the gullible and on students, they must accept it. This their modus operandi...and so when faced with sane biological opposition, they can only be subjective rather than objective.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Word salad doesn't answer my very specific questions.
You have been ducking, dodging, and weaving to avoid answering these questions for a month. Face it, you have no answers to these questions, and can't counter the evidence--and that's clear to everyone.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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edge Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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And do see my new signature for further information against evolution ...
Okay.
"Evolutyionists are used to forcing their theory on students and scientists. They are not used to answering any questions on this theory, because it is their religion."
You are obviously kidding.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2585 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Not kidding edge, evolutionists force evolution on students and will try and flunk them if they dont adhere to the doctrine of luck and chance. In UNiversity, they do not allow questions to be asked about evolution and its unproven science, as it is deemed a GIVEN.
No one as HEREIN as well is allowed to bring up topics that disagree with evolution. Evolutionists get very upset about answering queries and just say questioners dont understand, rather than evolutionists trying to explain their unproven theories logically. They can;t and so get rather upset.... and subjective. Just believe say the evolutionists, look at all of us that just believe... believe believe.. shake those dice... and believeEvolutyionists are used to forcing their theory on students and scientists. They are not used to answering any questions on this theory, because it is their religion. And as a religion it must be accepted by faith.... It is not science and it is not logical or rational and has no facts behind it. Evolution is a con and a LIE. A big one, but because it is forced on the gullible and on students, they must accept it. This their modus operandi...and so when faced with sane biological opposition, they can only be subjective rather than objective.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You are still trying to avoid responding to the evidence I posted disproving the flood (see Message 892, above).
You have no answers, eh?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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edge Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
You are still trying to avoid responding to the evidence I posted disproving the flood (see Message 892, above).
Just remember, "evolutionists" are the ones who refuse to answer questions. Just keep saying that over and over.
You have no answers, eh?
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JonF Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The first thing I noticed about this occurrence is that nothing has been published since the 1960's when it was first announced. PRECAMBRIAN POLLEN IN THE GRAND CANYON A REEXAMINATIONPrecambrian Pollen The guy who collected the pollen is famous for incompetence.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Fossils have turned up in the wrong place many times and this continues today. This leads to the range of fossils often being extended. Vertebrates have been confirmed in the early Cambrian. Pollen fossils have been found in Precambrian strata although it was claimed that flowering plants don't occur in the fossil record until early in the Cretaceous era. Grass was not supposed to have evolved until millions of years after the end of the dinosaurs but traces of grass have been found in fossilized dinosaur coprolites (dung). Ducks, squirrels, platypus, beaver-like and badger-like creatures have all been found in ‘dinosaur-era’ rock layers along with bees, cockroaches, frogs and pine trees. Picture T. Rex stomping along with a duck flying overhead. Perhaps that Precambrian rabbit will soon appear. You're not providing any citations, I notice. I also notice that you have no idea what would constitute the "wrong" place for a fossil. Finally, I note that none of this answers the point that you cannot explain the order in the fossil record.
Similarly there are many living fossils, animals and plants that were thought to have gone extinct millions of years ago. Coelacanth, Wollemi Pine, a rodent called Laonastes aenigmamus , and a sponge called Nucha vancouverensis are examples. What of it? If this was a point against evolution, which it isn't, it still wouldn't answer the point that you cannot explain the order in the fossil record.
There are several mechanisms that separately and together could provide a Creationist explanation for the sequence in the fossil record. No they couldn't. Separately and together, these excuses do not provide an explanation. This has been tried and failed. See here. EvC Forum: The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
Why don't we find mammals underneath Trilobite bearing layers? Because Trilobites lived on the bottom of the ocean and very few mammals lived underneath them. But we do find marine organisms above terrestrial organisms. Just not trilobites above mammals.
We can also ask how well the fossil record supports the [neo-]Darwinian evolutionary model. Darwin said that according to his theory there should be many finely graded intermediate types but admitted that these did not appear in the fossil record. Darwin hoped that future discoveries would fill in the gaps. Over 100 years later Gould admitted the lack of transitional forms was the trade secret of paleontology, and he and Eldridge came up with Punctuated Equilibrium to explain this. This theory has not been a success. Transitional fossils are still missing. But this is stupid shit that creationists have made up because their drivel can only be supported by telling dumb lies. And if it wasn't a bunch of dumb dirty lies, which it is, it still wouldn't answer the point that you cannot explain the order in the fossil record.
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