What is the evolutionairy theory on the Giraffe?

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Originally posted by mark24:
Not sure of your point as regards insects.

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The Giraffes neck grew more than its entire body as this is the most economical way of gaining height. A huge body requires more food than just a long neck. For the Giraffe, a huge body & the extra bones & musculature required to support it is a survival disadvantage compared to a long neck. ie It may cost more to keep than the extra food it brings in.

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The Giraffe isn't misproportioned, it is OPTIMALLY proportioned for its lifestyle.

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Did you know that the giraffe's body itself is actually smaller than that of a horse?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Percipient:
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Mark24 writes:
The Giraffe isn't misproportioned, it is OPTIMALLY proportioned for its lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

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An interesting question often asked about ID (which I know isn't advocated by Redstang, I introduce it for another reason) is why God's designs are identical with evolution. This often comes up when people question why God would design humans so poorly, eg, why the appendix, why blood vessels in front of the retina, why a body cavity design best suited for horizontal positioning, why tonsils, and so forth. The argument is that good enough designs, vestigial organs, etc, are what one would expect of evolution, not of a divine designer.

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Assuming consistent arguments are preferable, could it instead be argued that the giraffe body design is good enough for its ecological niche, rather than optimal?

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--Percy

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[This message has been edited by Percipient, 12-17-2001][/B]

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The creationist pov of vestigial organs is that we just don't know what they do yet.

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Originally posted by mark24:
Wouldn't you be able to determine this by looking at an organism that had the fully developed organ? eg Ruminants. In the case of the caecum (appendix)its for digestion of cellulose. All the other organs in ruminants have the same function as our organs, liver, kidney, lungs. Our caecums produce no hormones or enzymes, & no longer digest cellulose, or anything else for that matter.

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The organ IS function-less.

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If the caecum has a function, the onus is on creationists to show it, where science has failed. Go on, theorise.

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Just because we don't know what it does now, doesn't mean we never will. Tonsils once thought to be useless actually help prevent disease. Those who have had their tonsils removed are actually 4 times more likely to develop Hodgkin’s disease.But this is getting off topic anyways.

Did you know that a full grown giraffe's heart weighs over 24 pounds and pumps 16 gallons a minute? Because the giraffe's heart is much larger than his head, a series of special one-way, back-flow preventer valves are needed in the neck to regulate the flow of blood to the head, especially when the giraffe is bending down to get that much needed drink of water. Without these valves, the immense blood pressure coupled with gravity would make for one nasty headache and other such repercussions. Elastic blood vessels in the giraffe's head allow harboring of enough blood to prevent the giraffe from passing out when bent in this position.How did this evolve?

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Originally posted by mark24:
A mutation that placed pre-existing venal valve in arteries? Veins/capilleries are elastic anyway, so successive mutations that make the said vessels "more elastic" would do the trick.

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Wow, so not only would all that have to occur, but also the giraffe would have to be isolated and we would hope that the giraffe baby could nurse milk off the giraffe for a long enough time to grow to reach the tree branches.This is why the evolution community has given up on that theory of giraffe evolution and has started a new one.Meanwhile the creationists still maintain the giraffe was created a giraffe as God designed him as one of the creatures to help maintain plant grow.

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Originally posted by joz:
Which would be fine if you had any evidence for your explanation other than a 2000 year old religious document......

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Oh and I think you meant growth not grow....

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It's funny the extent people have to go through to try and prove the bible wrong. Their theories change all the time.Yet this single Book stays the same.