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Topic: The TRVE history of the Flood...
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 346 of 1352 (805807)
04-20-2017 8:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
04-20-2017 8:16 PM
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Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
Faith writes: My evidence is the Biblical dates then. Yours are the product of the fallen mind. End of subject. So you have nothing. Lets see, there are all the petroglyphs and cave paintings, all the civilizations that exited straight through the dates when the imaginary flood would have happened, the genetic evidence from before Adam that shows no interruption and replacement by Middle Eastern genotypes, the total lack of any world wide flood evidence within the last several hundred thousand years and the Bristle Cone Pine that is still alive today and also the Pando Aspen Clonal Colonies that are about 80,000 years old and the Lomatia Clonal Colony of Tasmania that has been going for over 40,000 years and the 13,000 year old Jurapa Oak and Old Tjikko that is over 9000 years old against two mutually contradictory fables found in the Bible.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 345 by Faith, posted 04-20-2017 8:16 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 350 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 12:59 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 347 of 1352 (805813)
04-20-2017 10:15 PM
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Twelve continuously occupied cities
Here is a list of twelve cities that have been continuously occupied with nine occupied right through the imaginary flood without even noticing. There are many other sites, the Pyramids and other Egyptian Temple Complexes are great examples. The Egyptians were pretty much aware of floods and might well have noticed a world-wide one.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 348 by Coyote, posted 04-20-2017 10:43 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2356 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 348 of 1352 (805815)
04-20-2017 10:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 347 by jar
04-20-2017 10:15 PM
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Re: Twelve continuously occupied cities
In my area I have a major cluster of archaeological sites that were occupied before, during, and after the purported flood. I even have mtDNA that spans across the "exact" date we have been given for the flood. And that mtDNA isn't a haplotype from the Near East! Researchers throughout the world have similar findings. The evidence shows that a worldwide flood at about 4350 years ago never happened. Belief in such a flood is contradicted by real-world evidence.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 347 by jar, posted 04-20-2017 10:15 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 349 of 1352 (805832)
04-21-2017 12:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 348 by Coyote
04-20-2017 10:43 PM
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Re: Twelve continuously occupied cities
Dating is not "real-world evidence."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 348 by Coyote, posted 04-20-2017 10:43 PM | | Coyote has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 361 by Coyote, posted 04-21-2017 9:30 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 350 of 1352 (805833)
04-21-2017 12:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 346 by jar
04-20-2017 8:35 PM
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Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
It's all dating nonsense, not evidence. The Bible is great evidence, being a written account [abe: based on oral reports handed down /abe] from people near the time of the event. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : Correction added to second sentence
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 346 by jar, posted 04-20-2017 8:35 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 353 by NoNukes, posted 04-21-2017 1:51 AM | | Faith has replied | | | Message 357 by jar, posted 04-21-2017 7:23 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2381 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: 05-10-2007
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Message 351 of 1352 (805835)
04-21-2017 1:03 AM
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Reply to: Message 348 by Coyote
04-20-2017 10:43 PM
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Re: Twelve continuously occupied cities
And the Greenland ice core goes back 100,000 years, with no evidence of a large missing section due to melting from a flood, and no abrupt discontinuity. This is evidence that NO flood covered Greenland in the last 100,000 years.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 348 by Coyote, posted 04-20-2017 10:43 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 352 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 1:07 AM | | kbertsche has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 352 of 1352 (805836)
04-21-2017 1:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 351 by kbertsche
04-21-2017 1:03 AM
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Re: Twelve continuously occupied cities
So you not only reject the traditional understanding of the first verses of Genesis but the whole account of the Flood. Instead of reinterpreting the science to fit God's word you turn God's word into a lie.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 351 by kbertsche, posted 04-21-2017 1:03 AM | | kbertsche has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 353 of 1352 (805839)
04-21-2017 1:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
04-21-2017 12:59 AM
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Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
The Bible is great evidence, being a written account from people near the time of the event. With regard to the flood, the Genesis account was not written by people who were even alive near the time of the event. Why would you even make that claim?
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 350 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 12:59 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 354 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 3:00 AM | | NoNukes has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 354 of 1352 (805840)
04-21-2017 3:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 353 by NoNukes
04-21-2017 1:51 AM
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Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
My mistake. I was thinking of Abraham, and Shem who was still alive in Abraham's time, whose reports were of course oral, and handed down to Moses. Eyewitness account by Shem nevertheless, which Abraham would have heard, though they didn't write it into the scripture. I've added a correction to that statement in the post Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 353 by NoNukes, posted 04-21-2017 1:51 AM | | NoNukes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 934 by NoNukes, posted 05-30-2017 3:33 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 355 of 1352 (805841)
04-21-2017 3:17 AM
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Anti-Flood Book on Grand Canyon by "Christians."
Kbertsche mentioned a book titled Grand Canyon Monument to an Ancient Earth (obviously playing off creationist Steve Austin's earlier book, Grand Canyon, Monument to Catastrophe.) I just reread the first few pages. This book needs a rigorous debunking but if I'm going to do it that will have to wait. I have two complaints to make here:
- They say nothing against the early Old Earth interpretations of the canyon, although they are supposedly Christians who should care that the Old Earth contradicts the Bible.
- Then in discussing the Christian creationist opposition to the Old Earth interpretations, they indulge in the straw man canard about how such creationists make use of the products of science while criticizing science. That stupidity alone discredits the authors of this book.
I see I have notes in the margins for pages to come. I think I'll be rereading it for a while, if I can stomach it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 356 by Pressie, posted 04-21-2017 6:57 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Pressie
Member (Idle past 225 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: 06-18-2010
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Message 356 of 1352 (805850)
04-21-2017 6:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
04-21-2017 3:17 AM
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Re: Anti-Flood Book on Grand Canyon by "Christians."
This one is funny and also tragic. A person who thinks that the Cambrian is a layer claims that she could debunk a book written on those rocks by actual geologists who studied those rocks... Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 355 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 3:17 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 357 of 1352 (805854)
04-21-2017 7:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
04-21-2017 12:59 AM
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Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
Faith writes: It's all dating nonsense, not evidence. Once again Faith, that is simply not true. All of the items I listed exist. They are evidence. They are dated by a variety of methods including direct ring counting and genetics.
Faith writes: The Bible is great evidence, being a written account [abe: based on oral reports handed down /abe] from people near the time of the event. Again, that is simply not true. The Bible is a lousy witness with two different and contradictory fables. In addition it is most likely simply a poorly written copy of a far earlier myth from thousands of years before the Garden of Eden or the other Biblical Creation myth. Also oral history is often very much exaggerated and fantasized. Oral history never trumps physical evidence. And remember just one single example is sufficient to refute the nonsense of a Biblical Flood.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 350 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 12:59 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Admin
Director Posts: 13107 From: EvC Forum Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 358 of 1352 (805856)
04-21-2017 7:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 329 by jar
04-20-2017 4:27 PM
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Jar Suspended 24 Hours
Me in Message 272:
Repeating what I said previously, please keep the personal comments to a minimum and the focus on the topic. If you have no valid rebuttal or comment then it is best to say nothing at all. Help move the discussion forward. I'm going to begin issuing short suspensions for violations of this request. Jar in Message 329:
So once again you admit you are simply lying.
...
And you also again show your ignorance... Please keep the focus on the topic and not on the people discussing with you.
| -- | Percy | | | EvC Forum Director |
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 329 by jar, posted 04-20-2017 4:27 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Davidjay
Suspended Member (Idle past 2579 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: 11-05-2004
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Message 359 of 1352 (805863)
04-21-2017 9:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 358 by Admin
04-21-2017 7:48 AM
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Re: Continental Drift is 'Off Topic'
But Percy, if I stick to the topic of the Worldwide Flood and its true Historical Dating, I can not talk about Continental Drift or Continental Movement which happened over 130 years later, according to the historical record. They are two different events, although related. You suggested I NOT start a new thread on Continental Drift, and debating it with evolutionists who believe in the one inch per year theory, so how can I stick to the topic, when if I post Continental Drift it will be 'OFF TOPIC' Please advise, this possible contradiction IHGS (in His Geological Service) David Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.
. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 358 by Admin, posted 04-21-2017 7:48 AM | | Admin has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1694 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 360 of 1352 (805865)
04-21-2017 9:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 328 by caffeine
04-20-2017 4:15 PM
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Re: Misrepresentation of RCC by Faith
I believe it was actually Gregory the Great (a pope) who is first known to have equated the claim to be universal bishop with the antichrist. Yes, I'd forgotten that, thanks for the reminder.
. Phocas' recognition of the Bishop of Rome as head of the Church should be understood in terms of the struggle for dominance between the Roman Bishop and the Patriarch of Constantinople. The establishment of a formal church hierarchy was already long complete by this point - now they were just fighting over who was in charge. The title "Universal Bishop" seems to have been a major turning point. There was already deviation from the true doctrine before that and it kept on accumulating afterward. But all of this jockeying for position is utterly contrary to the spirit of Christ and deserves the Pope the title Antichrist. the Reformers were very serious about that title, they proved it in various ways from scripture that the Pope really IS the Antichrist the scripture says will come.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 328 by caffeine, posted 04-20-2017 4:15 PM | | caffeine has not replied |
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