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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 271 of 1352 (805535)
04-19-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
04-19-2017 5:51 AM


Re: Re:Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
Yes, the Grand Canyon was created by the receeding of the Worldwide Flood, its blatantly obvious. The landscapes of the world are full of this receeding water flow, darn evolutionists just have no geology skills because they close their eyes to the blatant obvious FLOOD. Darwin and Viekosky (Sp) noted it in their diaries, why do closed minded blind evolutionists see the exact same thing.
Anyway, the other factor is that the waters came from below as described exactly in Genesis, not just from above (For 40 days and nights), similarly, the receeding waters did not just evaporate, but also surely went through and down from where they came.
But then again evolutionists in their mind numbing belief system that NOTHING EVER changes, and no catastrophic events ever occured therefore there insane extrapolations of times and eons must be correct.
So Yes, there was a worldwide flood that receeded. Deal with it evolutionists, true scientists have and noted catastrophic events in the past.
Should I go on and explain continental drift, and the Days of Peleg...and the inch a year dementia of the evolutionists...
Evolution breeds supidity and denial, and horrible ignorance.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 9:55 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
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Message 272 of 1352 (805536)
04-19-2017 8:08 AM


Moderator Request
Repeating what I said previously, please keep the personal comments to a minimum and the focus on the topic. If you have no valid rebuttal or comment then it is best to say nothing at all. Help move the discussion forward.
I'm going to begin issuing short suspensions for violations of this request.

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 273 of 1352 (805538)
04-19-2017 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 7:54 AM


Re: Summary.. Creation wins, Jesus wins
I have absolutely proven my dates as biblical and reinforced in two other ways,
You still haven't told us what that pyramid is supposed to demonstrate.
You have a lot of time to type that you've proven things over and over again. Surely you have the time to actual type the proof rather than just providing links to a poorly designed website.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 7:54 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 274 of 1352 (805539)
04-19-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
04-18-2017 10:43 PM


Re: On "opinions"
They are direct witnesses Faith. They are as good a witness as a hole in the target is a witness that the target was hit.
In particular the twin evidence of Oklo and observations of nuclear reactions in stars confirm a time line of not less than 1.7 Billion years.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 244 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 10:43 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 275 of 1352 (805544)
04-19-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Faith
04-18-2017 11:15 PM


Actually Read The Bible Faith
Faith writes:
Some things like the Bible are intended to compensate for our fallen minds.
Granted your mind may be fallen but there is nothing in the Bible to support any fallen mind. That is a product and perversion of some fallen Christian Minds.
There is no Fall of mankind in the Bible.
Faith writes:
Most of the sciences rely on many people able to replicate the work, that fact certainly compensates for our fallen minds. They aren't sciences that are trying to peer into the undocumented /unwitnessed past.
First the past is neither undocumented or unwitnessed. Changes leave evidence and that evidence exists even today. In addition the findings that led to the total and complete discarding of Young Earth or the Biblical Flood fantasies are the result of scientist replicating the work of others and testing the results through a variety of methods.
The Bible itself shows that the Flood story is myth since it includes two different and mutually exclusive versions.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 251 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 11:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 276 of 1352 (805570)
04-19-2017 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Davidjay
04-19-2017 8:07 AM


Re: Re:Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
But then again evolutionists in their mind numbing belief system that NOTHING EVER changes
Evolutionists believe that nothing ever changes?
May I ask where you got this remarkable notion?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:07 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 277 of 1352 (805571)
04-19-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Faith
04-19-2017 5:50 AM


Re: On "opinions"
Your fake might get a few nuts to follow it, but anybody who follows the Bible would know it was a fake.
People have followed lots of books purporting to contain history, from the Rig Vedas to the Book of Mormon.
The Bible is authentic history and that's why it is a good witness.
Well, that was perfectly circular, wasn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 5:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 278 of 1352 (805572)
04-19-2017 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
04-19-2017 5:51 AM


Re: Re:Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
But it does not look like it was carved out by a river. the narrow parts maybe but not the wide parts.
Does too. If you look at things you do admit were carved by a river, such as incised meanders, you will see that they too are wider than the river at the bottom. This is how water and rocks work.
And since your alternate explanation seems flawed by the fact that water doesn't work like that, I think we'll go with the river theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 5:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:37 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 279 of 1352 (805573)
04-19-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Faith
04-19-2017 5:50 AM


On reality
Faith writes:
The Bible is authentic history and that's why it is a good witness.
Which is why it contains not one but two different and mutually exclusive creation and flood myths.
So the Bible is the classic example of the witness that keeps contradicting what it just said.
That is NOT the definition of a "good witness" but rather of an unreliable at best witness.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 5:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 1352 (805589)
04-19-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
04-18-2017 11:50 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
There is a pronounced uplift illustrated on the cross sections but it doesn't seem to be extensive enough to be the Colorado Plateau. However, maybe that's what it is. In any case yes I think the uplifted land is the reason for the canyon, for the breaking up of the higher strata, for the cracks that admitted the water, etc.
All of which is extremely non-Biblical. The only thing the Bible tells us about the force of the Flood is that the rising of the water was extremely, and likely supernaturally gentle. With regards to the receding of the flood waters, that too was apparently gentle as folks on the boat did not report any undue effects.
Further, for all we know, the grand canyon itself predates the flood. Nobody on the planet witnessed anything that happened on this continent, or on 5 of the other continents we currently know about.
So what you are actually posting here is speculation that does not agree with the facts and detail that can be observed regarding the canyon. We know this because when you point us at the GC, you get upset when we look too closely.
Perhaps you should stick to the story as told in the Bible.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 11:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 281 of 1352 (805596)
04-19-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by NoNukes
04-19-2017 12:04 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
All of which is extremely non-Biblical. The only thing the Bible tells us about the force of the Flood is that the rising of the water was extremely, and likely supernaturally gentle. With regards to the receding of the flood waters, that too was apparently gentle as folks on the boat did not report any undue effects.
Funny how we're always being reminded that the Bible isn't a scientific text but then it seems we're expected to just do a better job of treating it as a scientific text. The Bible is history and it gives enough facts to allow us to make some intelligent guesses about the physical effects of the worldwide Flood it describes.
The Bible doesn't say much at all to allow us to conclude just how quiet it was or wasn't. We have a lot of leeway for speculating based on our own experience of the physical world how the little it says fits with observations of the condition of the earth. If the Flood was real then certainly it is responsible for great effects on the earth, how could it be otherwise? And there are certainly plenty of obvious effects that should be ascribed to that event.
Using your imagination, intelligently of course, it would be reasonable to expect that the result of forty days and nights of heavy rain teerwhere on the planet, which is what the Bible say happened, would saturate the earth to quite a depth, would cause gigantic mudslides and so on. Some violence would be expected from huge amounts of mud tumbling downhill into the sea. The rising phase of the FLood should then be fairly quiet, as well as the period at the height of the Flood where it stayed quiet for a couple of months. (Oceans are also constantly moving, however, with waves, tides, currents and so on, so it would probably never be as a still as a lake.) But when the water recedes it will again disturb the land, in this case the strata that have been built up by the Flood. All that broken-up strata flowing downhill could be described as violent in its effects in some places, as huge amounts of debris-laden water flows back to its former sea level.
What creationists are doing is exactly what should be done with the Biblical information in conjunction with the geological facts. The strata that occur everywhere around the globe fit the description of the layering of sediments caused by rising sea level, as observed by Johannes Walther. A very good fit with the conditions of the Flood.
The prevailing idea that the strata represent time periods is truly absurd. Separated sediments for starters would be a very unlikely result of millions of years of life on earth. Then their lying horizontally one on top of another with no signs of anything similar to what is seen on the earth's surface today, just flatness, plus their containing an abundance of dead things, is NOT what the surface of the earth normally does, but exactly what the Flood would have done. That was its purpose, after all, to wipe out all living things on the land. A lot of sea life died too, of course.
Further, for all we know, the grand canyon itself predates the flood. Nobody on the planet witnessed anything that happened on this continent, or on 5 of the other continents we currently know about.
Yes, and that leaves it for us to speculate on what did happen. The idea that the canyon could have predated the Flood is highly unlikely, to put it mildly, because that much water would have reduced it all to mud and debris, no doubt completely filled in the canyon itself, mixing the sediments together, utterly destroying the form of the canyon itself. There would have been no identifiable strata left, chunks of it at best, no coherent shape to the formation. But of course the idea that the strata were formed in any other way than by the Flood itself is the most glaring absurdity. The worldwide Flood is THE reasonable interpretation, the ONLY reasonable interpretation, all the rest is just weirdly improbable.
So what you are actually posting here is speculation that does not agree with the facts
Oh it fits the facts beautifully.
and detail that can be observed regarding the canyon. We know this because when you point us at the GC, you get upset when we look too closely.
Oh I see. It's your training as a psychoanalyst that tells you the fault is in my personality, we don't need to consider my actual arguments. Nonsense. You distort the facts, you aren't looking "closely," you're refusing to acknowledge the obvious when it's pointed out. The post I am responding to is a monument to unreality and sheer destructive nonsense. Blithering nonsense. I don't know about getting upset but if something could get me that upset it would be this sort of lying mangling of the truth and denial of the obvious.
Perhaps you should stick to the story as told in the Bible.
You understand neither the Biblical account nor the geological facts. The problem with an open public debate is that such stupid ideas as yours are given as much weight as reasonable ones, and on a site predisposed against biblical interpretations the stupid ideas often get a lot of traction and undeserved approval by people who haven't a clue to any of the issues.
ABE: Apparently you, like too many other so-called Christians, don't care a fig whether the Bible is treated as a myth and Christians as delusional believers in a fake "sky wizard." I don't understand that attitude. Defending the faith as well s we can is our calling.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 289 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 3:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 294 by NoNukes, posted 04-19-2017 3:51 PM Faith has replied
 Message 302 by kbertsche, posted 04-19-2017 6:51 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 282 of 1352 (805597)
04-19-2017 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Dr Adequate
04-19-2017 10:01 AM


Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
Meanders have nothing in common with the widest parts of the canyon.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 10:01 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-19-2017 2:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 3:03 PM Faith has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 1352 (805605)
04-19-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:37 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
Meanders have nothing in common with the widest parts of the canyon.
Huh!? There's isn't any part of the canyon that doesn't meander:
(click to enlarge)
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Enlarge thumbnail view to full screen. The photo can be zoomed in even more by clicking on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 284 of 1352 (805607)
04-19-2017 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by New Cat's Eye
04-19-2017 2:53 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
You are misusing the term "meander" in its nonscientific sense. Please see Message 210

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 285 of 1352 (805610)
04-19-2017 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:37 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
Meanders have nothing in common with the widest parts of the canyon.
They have one thing in common, which is that they are wider at the top than the rivers that flow through them. Which should give you a clue as to how rocks and water work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 3:04 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
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