Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 91 of 1352 (804334)
04-08-2017 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
04-06-2017 12:42 PM


Re: Thanks ..... 4004 B.C
Thanks Faith, I am getting used to this new format discussion board. Mind you, I reckon most HERE are a bit confused as you have duly noted.
So lets continue, the mathematics and science of determining the year of the Great Flood .... IMO ..... and according to many others as well. Where were we in our logical discernment of this exact year.
To establish Step 3, lets begin with noting that 4004 B.C is easily determined by going from a known historical year, backwards using the exact years of Genesis. This involves subtraction, but Grade Six evolutionists should be able to do this.
Many have confirmed this......
4004 bc - Google Search
So dont blame me, for agreeing with their math, why because further confirmations of the thousand year equals a day template coincides exactly with the beginning at 4004 B.C.
Read and study the exactness and beauty of 1000YearDivisions
The evolutionists will surely howl and say those arent the historical dates, so Ussher and all the rest of the sane scientists and mathematicians are insane. Oh well closed fearful minds of cohesive exactness exist. But honest people just do the math, and make notes concerning the design of time in history. History was not by chance or LUCK. History was by design, just as prophecy is and was and will be by exact DESIGN, by the GREAT MATHEMATICIAN..... Jesus
(Note when determining the year count from 4004 B.C. to the Great Flood in 2348 BC... watch out for O AD or 0 BC its a point and not a year.... in the Roman calendar. Hence the end point of the 6000 years was 1997)
So 4004 BC is now established and confirmed !!!!

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 04-06-2017 12:42 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Coyote, posted 04-08-2017 9:59 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 92 of 1352 (804336)
04-08-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 9:51 AM


Re: Thanks ..... 4004 B.C
So 4004 BC is now established and confirmed !!!!
Nonsense and more nonsense! You're building a house of cards, except cards are physical and real, while your constructs are neither.
You are ignoring evidence that there was no flood at your "exact" date because you have nothing but silly numbers to fight with. The global flood at your date is disproved conclusively by my own research, and thousands of times over by the research of others.
Now you want to use your silly numbers to "prove" a young earth, 4004 BC? What a joke!
From my own research half a world away from the Near East I have radiocarbon dates of 4304 BC and 4395 BC, as well as a stack of older ones. (Other scientists take the dates back billions of years of course.)
So there, before you even get started preaching is disproof for your flimsy numbers.
But if you're true to form you will just ignore this evidence and keep on spouting your silly numbers as if they had any connection to the real world.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 9:51 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 10:15 AM Coyote has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 93 of 1352 (804339)
04-08-2017 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Coyote
04-08-2017 9:59 AM


Re:..... 4004 B.C Confirmed.. Great Pyramid
My flimsy numbers are made in stone, so you can never forget them and will always note in the HEREAFTER that they were there as evidence against your lack of knowledge and math, Coyote.
So lets proceed to the STONE PROPHECY OF THE LORD...the Great PYRAMID OF ENOCH.
Its the most fantastic structure ever built, as it was done in concert with the great prophet Enoch and with the help of the CREATOR.... its math is the most perfect possible, again all PHI Golden Section based.
So study PHI as a pre-requisite.
PHIMysteries

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Coyote, posted 04-08-2017 9:59 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Coyote, posted 04-08-2017 10:40 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 94 of 1352 (804340)
04-08-2017 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Phat
04-08-2017 2:30 AM


Re: Evidence against the global flood being ignored
This is likely who he means:
Immanuel Velikovsky
So, eminent in the field of being wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 04-08-2017 2:30 AM Phat has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 95 of 1352 (804343)
04-08-2017 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Davidjay
04-08-2017 10:15 AM


Re: Re:..... 4004 B.C Confirmed.. Great Pyramid
My flimsy numbers are made in stone, so you can never forget them and will always note in the HEREAFTER that they were there as evidence against your lack of knowledge and math, Coyote.
In other words, you are going to ignore all the evidence that shows you are flat-out wrong?
Typical creationist.
(You really should put, "Amen" after all your posts as what you're doing here is preaching. You're not debating.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Davidjay, posted 04-08-2017 10:15 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Davidjay, posted 04-09-2017 1:00 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 96 of 1352 (804388)
04-09-2017 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Coyote
04-08-2017 10:40 AM


Re: .. Great Pyramid
Evolutionists must hate the Great Pyramid as they hate math and corelations, and what the Lord made stand the test of time because it shows the progression of time......
Evolutionists are not science typers, the Lord created Science, it did not creat itself , the Laws did not create themselves. More later... on this important corner stone..
Evolutionists are thieves and robbers, trying to suggest that they are scientists. Its the L word.... its a L**
So how many days are there in a week 7
How many 1,000 year periods are there according to the Great Math Book ? 7
How many have to pass before the Lord returns ... 6 and sets up His RULE of 1,000 years.
But as a precursor, do note that the Lord exactly foretold His first Coming and Birth exactly.... do you hear evolutionists gnawing on their teeth again...
SEE Time prophecy
TimeProphecy
Jesus was born in 4 BC, four thousand years after Creation, when He started Creation.... exactly. Amazing HUH, OK coincidence if you have a weak mind but the coincidences keep adding up, over and over and over again, until it gets into your head that it isnt coincidence, it has to be TIME DESIGN...
Then you are ready for the GREAT PYRAMID PROPHECY taht again absolutely confirms the date and year of the GREAT FLOOD.
The ascending downward shaft until the Flood and then upwards in the ascending SHAFT to Jesus exact borth and exact ministry and do I mean exact, onward to the GREAP STONE and LEAP and the writing of KJV Bible, onward to the Lords Return in to the KINGS CHAMBER
Thank You Jesus ..... for creating exact math and exact science, and yet not forcing it on anyone. They all must make an effort to learn.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Coyote, posted 04-08-2017 10:40 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by kbertsche, posted 04-10-2017 1:33 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 97 of 1352 (804401)
04-09-2017 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coyote
04-05-2017 8:56 PM


My own archaeological research disproves the global flood ca. 4500 years ago. ...
I have mitochondrial DNA of the same type extending from before to after that date.
Coyote, you might have answered this already. Where do you have this mtDNA and how is it dated?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coyote, posted 04-05-2017 8:56 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Coyote, posted 04-09-2017 9:58 AM CRR has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 98 of 1352 (804416)
04-09-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by CRR
04-09-2017 3:28 AM


Coyote, you might have answered this already. Where do you have this mtDNA and how is it dated?
The dating is done by radiocarbon dating, as well as other less-accurate methods such as artifact associations, stratigraphy, etc.
As to where, there are a number of laboratories around the country that specialize in analyzing ancient DNA. Many are in universities, but there are also some commercial ones.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by CRR, posted 04-09-2017 3:28 AM CRR has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 99 of 1352 (804452)
04-09-2017 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coyote
04-05-2017 8:56 PM


I'm afraid I don't trust scientists when it comes to Origins science. I'm no expert but it seems to me that certain strands of science have been corrupted to accomodate evolution. Mere speculation and wishful thinking sometimes morph into dogma and "facts".
And how can I trust the mentality that says antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution, for example? This is just one (off topic, admittedly) instance of Origins scientists being dishonest.
So I've learnt to trust only applied science. If I reject "science" that has no practical use, what am I missing out on? Nothing!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coyote, posted 04-05-2017 8:56 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 8:38 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied
 Message 101 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2017 9:02 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied
 Message 102 by Coyote, posted 04-09-2017 10:48 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 04-10-2017 12:08 AM Dredge has seen this message but not replied
 Message 105 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-10-2017 12:29 AM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 100 of 1352 (804457)
04-09-2017 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


So I've learnt to trust only applied science. If I reject "science" that has no practical use, what am I missing out on? Nothing!
Translation: I will take antibiotics, but I don't really give a crap where they come from.
Isn't it great that you can be completely ignorant and still benefit from science? Here is another thing you can do. You can reject all of the science of geology and still ride around in a car powered by petroleum.
After all, what have you lost? It's not like you have to duplicate scientific feats for yourself. Some scientist or engineer can do that for you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 101 of 1352 (804459)
04-09-2017 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


Dredge writes:
I'm afraid I don't trust scientists when it comes to Origins science. I'm no expert but it seems to me that certain strands of science have been corrupted to accomodate evolution. Mere speculation and wishful thinking sometimes morph into dogma and "facts".
Yup, you're no expert.
And how can I trust the mentality that says antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution, for example? This is just one (off topic, admittedly) instance of Origins scientists being dishonest.
I trust scientists when they say that antibiotic resistance are examples of evolution because those very same scientists work to develop new antibiotics and cure us of disease. I take their word for it because I trust them. But the really cool thing about science is that you don't need to trust. If you doubt, you can research the thing yourself. You can read the peer reviewed papers discussing it all and you can even repeat all their work if you feel you really have to. In other words it's real.
So I've learnt to trust only applied science. If I reject "science" that has no practical use, what am I missing out on? Nothing!
Wrong. What you've learnt to do is reject one aspect of science because it contraditicts a few myths in you book of stories that you've learnt to trust instead.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 102 of 1352 (804462)
04-09-2017 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


So I've learnt to trust only applied science. If I reject "science" that has no practical use, what am I missing out on? Nothing!
I dare to say that you trust only science that agrees with the bible and reject science that contradicts the bible.
As far as "no practical use," that's not for creationists to judge. They are inherently anti-science and their opinions on matters scientific are generally worthless.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 04-10-2017 12:20 AM Coyote has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 103 of 1352 (804464)
04-10-2017 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


antibiotic resistance
I agree with you in general, Dredge, and wish you would stick around but can understand if you don't.
And how can I trust the mentality that says antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution, for example? This is just one (off topic, admittedly) instance of Origins scientists being dishonest.
Well, the thing about antibiotics is you have to know enough evolutionary science to know what they mean. They aren't being dishonest, they just call things like antibiotic resistance evolution that don't support the theory in the slightest. This goes on all the time here but you have to get enough of the science to notice it. In the sense they use the term, which in relation to bacteria is basically "any change in the organism that has observable consequences" it's true enough: antibiotics do cause such a change. They kill off most of the bacteria but some continue to survive and multiply and that's what they call evolution.
But the question is whether the change is rightly called evolution. In this case usually what happens is that some function in some of the bacteria that was receptive to the antibiotic isn't present in the small group of survivors and the absence of that function gets passed on as the population grows -- it can't absorb the poison so it survives and proliferates. It's an absence of something, not a positive change. It's like the wingless beetles on windy islands. The reason they survive in the windy conditions is that they lack the genetic material that makes wings. In a sense it's a disease they have. It's certainly not anything like what the theory of evolution predicts, which is something new in the DNA that causes the beneficial change. New "information." So the bacteria lose some function that made them susceptible to an antibiotic, that's hardly what is meant by Evolution but it's called evolution.
But aside from that, changes that occur within a few generations of any organism, when they ARE positive changes in the genetic makeup, are "microevoolution." All creatures, sexually reproducing creatures anyway for sure, have this built-in ability to vary. that's how Darwin bred all his varieties of pigeons. He extrapolated from the fact that some pretty dramatic changes are possible in domestic breeding, to the theory of evolution: All he did was assume that the processes of change are open-ended, that change can just continue and continue until one kind of creature becomes another. In reality the changes only go so far and that's that. I've spent a lot of time here trying to argue from simple genetics why that is so: the loss of "information" or genetic variability that occurs because of the processes of change eventually brings the processes of evolution to an end.
But anyway, they aren't being dishonest, they just hold on to their theory with an iron grip.
Antibiotic resistance is real. It does occur because of changes in the bacteria that get selected because they survive the antibiotic. These changes are called evolution but they aren't. You seem to know this but it would help if you knew more about the science that makes it true.
But you're right, this is off topic.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by PaulK, posted 04-10-2017 12:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 104 of 1352 (804466)
04-10-2017 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Coyote
04-09-2017 10:48 PM


I dare to say that you trust only science that agrees with the bible and reject science that contradicts the bible.
That would be true for me of course. And that is because the Bible is God's Word, the revelation of the God who made it all so that we know it is all true.
You don't believe this of course but your disbelief doesn't change the fact that it is true.
Have you ever considered the possibility that it's true or do you just hang on to your unbelief without a moment's hesitation? because, if you could just consider that it might be true long enough to get an idea why people who belief it is true think as we do, it would probably improve communication around here quite a bit. Because the way you talk there is no point in having a debate. EvC might as well not even exist.
Consider it true, all of it, as believers do. Just suspend your disbelief long enough for this thought experiment.
Genesis is presented as historical fact. What then?
... [Creationists] are inherently anti-science and their opinions on matters scientific are generally worthless.
I'll say it again: this is false. Creationists are not anti-science. Creationists object to evolutionary and Old Earth claims and that's all. And because the Bible IS God's truth we have come to see that those are false science. Since the Bible gives only rough outlines of history we are left having to fill in the scientific information from what is true in conventional science plus our own observations.
It's the reasonable thing to do given the facts as I've spelled them out above.
You really should make a little bit of an effort to put yourself in our place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Coyote, posted 04-09-2017 10:48 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-10-2017 12:54 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 110 by Coyote, posted 04-10-2017 12:59 AM Faith has replied
 Message 111 by PaulK, posted 04-10-2017 1:04 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 105 of 1352 (804467)
04-10-2017 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


And how can I trust the mentality that says antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution, for example?
Well, you could research antibiotic resistance, realize that antibiotic resistance is an example of evolution, and start trusting the mentality that says true things about biology; or at least regard it as more trustworthy than the mentality of ignorant creationist idiots maundering on about subjects of which they know nothing.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Davidjay, posted 04-11-2017 1:34 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024