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Author Topic:   What's the difference between Islam and Radical Islam?
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 79 of 154 (801927)
03-10-2017 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
03-10-2017 3:17 AM


Re: Radical Islam - a threat to our way of life?
And that's not being a dupe and a patsy?
Exactly. When you say things, I listen to your motivations for what you say - it would be silly of me to listen to your enemy's explanation alone, wouldn't it?

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 Message 74 by Faith, posted 03-10-2017 3:17 AM Faith has not replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 80 of 154 (801928)
03-10-2017 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by New Cat's Eye
03-10-2017 9:48 AM


Re: Radical Islam - a threat to our way of life?
It wouldn't help if we are wrongly assuming they are all the same.
Suggesting we learn from history is not suggesting the past is the same as the present. I'm not suggesting we assume all people who do 'x' are the same throughout all time.
The Muslim terrorists say other things too.
Sure, they say things like
"This traffic is terrible"
"I hope Manchester United wins the league"
and so on.
Like bringing Sharia to the whole world.
Many religious people believe in bringing their religious morality to the rest of the world. Many atheists believe in bringing their irreligious morality to the rest of the world. Most of them aren't terrorists. So I don't see how this is a useful data point in the discussion.
I didn't see anything like that from the Jews.
You should check out the Tanakh at some point....

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 Message 75 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-10-2017 9:48 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 118 of 154 (801992)
03-10-2017 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
03-10-2017 6:31 PM


Re: The Way It Really Is
Not according to the Bible
According to the Quran Allah is not part of a pantheon, he is the One God the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus.
Paul needed a way to talk to the polytheistic and intellectual Greeks about Christ in a peculiarly inhospitable environment. He may have thought the "unknown god" they included in their pantheon represented the Creator God, that's not clear.
So did Mohammed.
Even as "the god" Allah appears as merely the main one of many.
Not according to the Quran.
It was the pagan Arabs who worshiped the pantheon he wanted to convert to the one God, but not to the God of Judaism or Christianity but to this new one he got from "the angel Gabriel" he believed was superior to both.
Not according to the Quran.

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 Message 117 by Faith, posted 03-10-2017 6:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 4:36 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 128 of 154 (802019)
03-11-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
03-11-2017 4:36 AM


origins
He can't be because there is no similarity between them.
There are abundant similarities.
The thing is, there are written histories....
Way to miss the point. There are histories of Judaism and Christianity which point to them taking deities and ideas from other religions. When we point them out, you say 'not according to the Bible'. So which is it - are we allowed to use histories, in which case we can criticize your religion in similar ways you criticize Islam - or are we not allowed to use histories, in which case you can't criticize Islam the way that you want?
Mohammed created Islam that show how he took the moon god called Allah, main god in the pantheon at Mecca
It seems you can't even get the revisionist history right.
a
The moon God was called Sin. Message 5 of Does Allah = Moon God?. As the Quran explicitly says: "Do not prostrate before the sun, nor the moon". Christian Arabs call the Christian God, Allah.
And the symbol of Islam, the crescent moon, retains that original derivation.
No. The crescent moon didn't become connected to Islam in any particular way until around the fall of Constantinople. It was also linked with the Sumerians, the Sasanids and the Christians. It didn't become strongly tied to Islam until the 18th Century when the Ottoman empire started to use it as their flag and it didn't become the symbol for 'Islam' in general until the 20th Century - particularly in 1970s with the rise of Arab nationalism.
There is an open thread on this whole topic from antiquity: YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread. where this will be more on topic. This thread is about differences between radical Islam and just Islam.

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Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 132 of 154 (802028)
03-11-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
03-11-2017 9:45 AM


names
Not unless God chose the Jews AND told Muslims to kill them wherever they find them
a) that isn't in the Quran
b) God himself almost did the same thing in the Old Testament.
Not unless Jesus is the Son of God AND God doesn't have a Son
Some Christians have believed Jesus was not the son of God.
also Miriam is the sister of Moses in the Bible and Mary is the mother of Jesus who lived about 1400 years later than Miriam, but in the Koran Mary is confused with Miriam
According to the Old Testament, Jesus was Moses' assistant. He even gets a whole book dedicated to him. The name 'Mary' in Greek is Μαρία. In the Old Testament the sister of Moses is Μαριάμ. It's the same name. Some people share names, and some names have multiple variants.
Jesus is called Isa in Arabic Ieusu in the Latin, Iēsous in the Greek, if you go from Hebrew to English it is Joshua (when English used the 'soft' 'J' or Yeshua). Moses is called Musa. Abraham is Ibrahim in Arabic, Abraam in Greek, . The languages are different, and when you translate between multiple languages, choices are made and sometimes different sounding names emerge by the time you reach English. Heck, just look at Cristbal Coln I mean Cristoforo Colombo - I mean Christopher Columbus. Same guy each time, would you believe.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 9:45 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:07 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 135 of 154 (802032)
03-11-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
03-11-2017 11:07 AM


Re: names
You're right the passage about the stone saying kill the Jew isn't in the Koran, it's in other equally authoritative writings
There is no such thing as equally authoritative writings.
That means they aren't Christians.
No it doesn't. If they think Jesus is the annointed one, the Messiah, the Christ - they are Christians.
I guess if there were no reality and lots of people didn't have the same name who lived thousands of years apart and lived entirely different lives and had completely different character, your linguistic gymnastics might not be the complete waste of time it unfortunately is.
This means nothing. There are multiple people called Mariam, or Miriam, or Maria or Mary. The Quran does not confuse these people as you claimed. The Quran does mention Moses' sister, it does not think she is the same as Jesus' mother.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 03-11-2017 11:42 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 234 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 137 of 154 (802044)
03-11-2017 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
03-11-2017 11:42 AM


Re: names
The hadiths are just as authoritative as the Koran
Wrong. Authoritative - yes according to some. But not equally. In any case, an eschatological prophecy about the antichrist is not an instruction to kill all Jews today.
the Hadiths are usually considered necessary for understanding the Koran.
This is so, for most Muslims (but not all). Similarly for Christians, of course - they rely on extra biblical sources for help interpreting the Bible.

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