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Member (Idle past 1627 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What's the difference between Islam and Radical Islam? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1627 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This issue keeps coming up (regurgitating?) on many threads so I though one single thread to discuss Islam vs Radical Islam would be appropriate.
quote: This is the critical element (in bold above): "... This blind obedience creates potential for extremism: if the religious scholar is extremist, the blind followers also apply the extremism in the name of religion. We can compare this to different Christian sects with different leaders, some of them charismatic evangelist cult leaders (the Branch-Davidians leader David Koresh come to mind) -- his extremism certainly lead his followers to a violent bloody death, and they had planned acts of violence, terrorism.
quote: So we can compare the Hadith to the Christian Gospels, written later from oral history. The salient take-away is that it is the radical "scholar" leader that turns Islam into violent behavior, not the religion itself, and there are many sects that do not have radical "scholar" leaders and these are the moderate or liberal leaders. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread copied here from the What's the difference between Islam and Radical Islam? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Phat Member Posts: 18581 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The best definition I could find came from a practicing Muslim.
quote: Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1627 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The best definition I could find came from a practicing Muslim.
quote: Sounds good, but I think there are differences between Radical sects that depend on the leader interpretations, and whether he is prone to promote extremist violence (eg ISIS) or work within society through laws. That would break Radical Islam into two groups Radical Islam (extremist) sects\cults where charismatic leader promotes or condones terrorism, violence and war as weapons for ... Fundamental Islam sects where leaders advocate followers adhere to strict interpretation of Quran and Hadith and Sharia Law. And I still see parallels with Christianity sects and cults. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1666 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Radical Islam is the most natural reading of the written holy books of Islam, so that violent jihad is easily justified.
I gather some sects spiritualize those readings so that jihad is not a violent attack on others. Some Muslims either don't know or don't follow the violent parts of their holy books. But the violence is always there in writing for whenever a person may happen to become indoctrinated to it, that is, "radicalized." In a way it doesn't matter how many Muslims follow the radical teachings at any given time; the leaders will always be there to promote violent action or whatever it takes to rule over a nonMuslim country when they have the power to do so, and the people will follow them. That's how I understand it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2699 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Here's a different way of looking at it. There's a spectrum. On one extreme are the full liberals. On the other are the authoritarians. Everyone else ranges in between.
The full liberal attitude is this: if something is thought by a liberal to meet with God's disapproval, like watching T.V., then the full liberal takes the attitude "I won't watch T.V., but I won't stop anyone else from doing so, because (from the Koran) there is no coercion in religion. This can be further explained by the reasoned point that you are only doing good in the eyes of God if you do so voluntarily. Not watching T.V. because you want to but the Taliban have banned it gets you no points in the eyes of God. The full authoritarian attitude is that God wants you to make the whole of society bend to his will. So, if the authoritarian thinks T.V. watching is wrong in the eyes of God, he wants T.V. banned under the law of the land. He wants a theocracy. If we look at all the groups described as "radical" in the O.P., they are all strong supporters of theocracy: full on coercion. The reason that the author of the O.P. article might have perceived leaders as being of great importance could be because authoritarians tend to focus around strong and obvious leaders, and liberals are more naturally individualistic, and their leaders will be theological guides and (by definition) would not be authority figures. But both groups can have leaders who have influence over theological interpretations, like whether or not T.V. is bad. To complicate matters, there are many different theological interpretations at any point on the spectrum. T.V. might be fine for some liberal groups and not for others, and it might be legal in some theocracies but not others. Liberal doesn't mean lax observance. The liberal might be very strict with herself, just not with others. The extreme liberals, it goes without saying, are innately tolerant of other beliefs. The authoritarians can tolerate other religions, particularly Christianity and Judaism, the people of the book, but these have lower status. If they are extreme, and you are a pagan, polytheist, animist or atheist, flee as quickly as possible, or keep your mouth shut and pretend to be Muslim! People here are more familiar with Christianity, and of course there is a similar spectrum. The difference is that there are relatively few sects left that are on the far authoritarian side. There used to be far more, and their enforcement used to be far more vicious in the good old days when heretics were hung. Does that help?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1627 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Radical Islam is the most natural reading of the written holy books of Islam, so that violent jihad is easily justified. Says the person who thinks there is only one way to read the bible and that is as infallible truth.
In a way it doesn't matter how many Muslims follow the radical teachings at any given time; the leaders will always be there to promote violent action or whatever it takes to rule over a nonMuslim country when they have the power to do so, and the people will follow them. That's how I understand it. Because that is the way you want it to be. Even though by sheer numbers the moderate Muslims way out-number the radicals. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 2497 Joined: |
Islam seems to have been quite intolerant (overall) of non-Christians, non-Jews, non-Muslims, but (on the other hand)not so bad when compared to the Catholics and Martin Luther's "Protestant" followers.
BUT WARNING, don't take anybody's word for it. Don't even take my word for it (as honest as I am) because it is a multi(-million) layered (historical!) issue that is super complicated and requires a lot of study - which almost nobody, including myself, has done. Follow the WARNING and don't ever fail to do so. This is really a historical issue. I said H-I-S-T-O-R-I-C-A-L Always remember just how full of crap historians are; even mainstream historians are ignorant or stupid. They just haven't done the work. EXAMPLE: How many times have you heard about how Constantine brought freedom of worship to Christians? The historians always say that pre-Constantine Christians had a rough time and post-Constantine Christians had freedom. It's a myth that has a Catholic/Protestant bias to it (history is written by the winners and they are indeed the "winners") The irony is that even Catholic scholarship will at times let the truth slip. here is an example from the Catholic Encyclopedia.
quote: As for Islam, which is an issue in its own right, it is very complicated and difficult question when it comes to tolerance issues. You have to look at its history while attempting to answer the question. Look at the history outright (and understand that it is difficult, if not impossible, to find a decent treatment of the issue that is broad enough in all the areas it looks at), then hope you can come to a decent history of theological interpretation of the Islamic sacred texts. Look at how Islam treated non-Christians, non-Jews. Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Manicheans are important world religions. Here is a source on Zoroastrians and their treatment. ZOROASTRIANISM ii. Arab Conquest to Modern — Encyclopaedia Iranica Looking at religions respective prophecy/eschatology (in their texts) might tell some stories that are relevant to this puzzle. ESCHATOLOGY — Encyclopaedia Iranica (has links to:i. In Zoroastrianism and Zoroastrian Influence. ii. Manichean Eschatology. iii. Imami shi’ism. iv. In Babism and Bahaism. ) But all of these issues are just pieces of the puzzle. They might not be the best places to start looking. But one has to see how they actually treated the minorities before one can start to understand anything. Never ever listen to a Christian fundamentalist on this issue though. I have never talked to a Muslim hating fundamentalist (in person) who has even heard of (for example) Zoroastrians. Even the ones that present themselves as experts are ignorant as heck's hell.
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Modulous Member (Idle past 207 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Many Muslims are very nice people, but their ideology could at any moment turn to the violent un-American, terroristic sadistic ways. For the faint of heart - this approach rejects the politically correct approach from snowflake liberals who would have us turn the other cheek - whose bleeding heart bending over to protect the radical fascists borders on the pathological. People who want to embrace and preserve the fruits of these savage terrorists and welcome these evil culture destroying monsters into our lands.
Palestinian Liberation Movement quote: We should never forget Black Sunday when 10 innocent people were killed by Radical Islamic Terrorists went on a blood thirsty savage rampage through Jerusalem fuelled by their hatred. Or the train bombing in Haifa that killed 4, including 2 French police officers! Not to mention the barbaric and murderous cafe bombing that took place less than a week later. Over the next few weeks more death was rained upon innocent people, peaking with a maniacal foam-frothed lunatic Islamic extremist threw a bomb into a market place killing 18 people, including 3 children - and injuring 24. We should never forget the bombing at Jaffa by Muslims. Or the July bombings and the nefarious plot to incite riots that resulted in 33 dead at Haifa. Or the bomb that less than two weeks later killed ten more innocent people when radical Islamic insurgents bombed a marketplace in Jerusalem. Or how a week later the disgusting radical Muslims killed 43 with a cowardly bomb attack in Haifa. The two dozen more innocent dead a month later with yet another marketplace bombing All this in one year. The year after that sociopathic Muslims killed 33 in coordinated bombing attacks on market-places. Then there was the atrocious attack on a cinema by Islamic wretches who used a landmine to kill five in May. Dozens more killed the following month culminating in maniacal Muslims putting explosives on a donkey - a donkey! It killed 20. July saw yet more shootings, more bombings and more death at the hands of these insane, religiously motivated lunatics. When you start to go through it, piece by gory piece, it is clear why we should not allow Muslims into our country - they cannot, as a community, be trusted. While there may be wise scientists, pacifists and politicians, some of them nice people...they could at any time attack our markets and kill our people. The casualties just mount up. There was a single incident one year in which 91 people were killed after Muslims set bombs off in a hotel. A hotel! Just because, apparently, 'enemies of the Islamic people' were using it as a base - most of the people killed were just workers, they weren't even part of the military or government they were fighting against. What's that all about? I don't even want to get into the massacres and slaughtering of rural village folk. Maybe the liberals are right? Maybe if we talk to these folk they would say these things are unfortunate, inexcusable events where young undisciplined men went too far in a time of violence and anger:
quote: quote: quote: quote: Talk about nonsense doubletalk!
quote: quote: quote: Then they come over to our lands are we surprised when they make demands for us to build houses of worship for them? To alter the way we prepare and present food to please their sensibilities? This is the core of their culture, surely, to demand by whatever means concessions to their way of life, with little compromise. They force people to segregate in public settings, on public transport - just so they don't have to sit next to women as they feel it is sinful. They impost so-called 'modesty' standards on their women and force them to cover up with veils and scarves. They want to set up private schools where they can indoctrinate their children into their way of life and force them to read their so-called 'Holy Books'. They spit at young girls and call them whores. They even try to force architectural design decisions onto the rest of us! These are the people that foisted the likes of Soros and Marcuse onto decent Western Culture, changing it irrevocably forever. Sorry, did I say Muslims? I meant to say Jews all along. Trigger Warning: these events happened. The names, title and religion of the participants have been changed to protect the snowflakes.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2328 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Bullshit.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Aftermath of the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2328 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Trade Towers (twern't the Mormons...)
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Modulous Member (Idle past 207 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Bullshit. Oh hello Coyote, didn't expect to see you in this thread. What's bullshit?
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Modulous Member (Idle past 207 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Clifford Martin and Marvin Paice
Tweren't the Mormons
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