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Member (Idle past 1623 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: A very brief history of Human Life | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1623 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I don't think it's relevant when something you would define as "personhood" begins, since the point I've been arguing is that if you leave it alone at any stage it will inevitably become a person, barring the effect of abnormal processes. Well faith, that "personhood" is not important to you, doesn't mean it is not important to other people. As I've said there are a plurality of views, not a single one. And when 55% of zygotes fail to implant that is a perfectly normal, natural part of the process, and leaving them alone will not result in a living breathing human being.
I also have a problem based on this reasoning, with any abortifacient or contraceptive that interferes after egg and sperm have combined, because all the genetic material is there for the making of the human being. I might be forced to make an exception for it just because it's popular and not gruesome like abortion, but logically I'm against the exception. That is your belief and you are welcome to it, other people have the same right to their beliefs on this issue. This again leads to a pluralist approach to let people decide how this applies to their lives. And when that genetic material produces an empty sac with no embrio inside, that too is a perfectly normal, natural part of the process, and leaving them alone will not result in a living breathing human being. There is no person there because there is no there there.
I expect to meet my own child in heaven, the one that I aborted when I was twenty, which was done at the age of about seven weeks. If the fertilized ovum is also a child IN GOD'S EYES, then there are going to be a lot of children meeting their Christian parents in heaven. I don't know of course. There may be an early stage of purely physical formation before the soul is infused by God. Nobody knows that. I rather think if the genetic material is all there, then it's the person in the making already. BUT, again, since we can't know that, I suppose I have to make the exception for the earliest stages. Thank you. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 630 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The Levites had an app for that:
There may be an early stage of purely physical formation before the soul is infused by God. Nobody knows that.quote:"In God's eyes" the unborn child seems to be treated as the father's property.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1623 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The title sounds like an Andy Borowitz column ...
quote: A victory for women and for choice. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Only a perverted legal system could call the murder of an unborn child a "choice" to be made, a "medical decision" when there is no medical issue involved, or a "right." But I guess when you believe that morality was evolved by natural processes you can justify any heinous crime.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: But I guess when you believe that morality was evolved by natural processes you can justify any heinous crime. Sorry Faith but thank God the truth is that in the US almost all abortions are NOT crimes. We can thank the Southern Baptists for that fact.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, murder isn't a crime in America any more, sad to say. But objecting to gay marriage is a crime. Pornography which is corrupting millions is protected as "free speech," in this current perversion of America. They're even trying to get the violent riots that are miscalled protests considered as free speech; illegal aliens are called "immigrants" and given rights that don't belong to them. Muslims are destroying Europe but nobody is allowed to call them Muslims or recognize what is really going on, and that's what the Left wants to happen here too. I don't know how much crazier and dangerous it can get before it all implodes and the barbarians take over.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: But objecting to gay marriage is a crime. No Faith, that too is simply not true. No one in the US has ever been charged with the crime of objecting to gay marriage.
Faith writes: illegal aliens are called "immigrants" and given rights that don't belong to them. No Faith, that too is simply not true. Due Process is one of the rights guaranteed to anyone in the US under our Constitution.
Faith writes: Muslims are destroying Europe but nobody is allowed to call them Muslims or recognize what is really going on, and that's what the Left wants to happen here too. No Faith, that too is simply not true. No one is prohibited from calling a Muslim a Muslim here or even in Europe.
Faith writes: Pornography which is corrupting millions is protected as "free speech," in this current perversion of America. LOL. Pornography can well be free speech Faith but do you have any evidence that it corrupts anyone? And finally...
Faith writes: No, murder isn't a crime in America any more, sad to say. No Faith, that too is simply not true. In the US murder is still considered a crime. So what we see is that every one of your assertions is factually wrong. How's that for honesty?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, jar, what "we see" is you finding ways to manipulate words to make true false and false true, that's all.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1623 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Only a perverted legal system could call the murder of an unborn child ... The term "unborn child" is a fiction of the extreme right, not reality. There are fundamental differences between a fetus and a child. The first breath and subsequent use of lungs is one, and it is major when that does not happen because the fetus died. A second is closing an opening in the heart so that the heart pumps the child's blood instead of the umbilical blood, and a third is the change from (2α2γ) hemoglobin to hemoglobin (2α2β). See Message 4 An empty sac pregnancy is not an unborn child it doesn't even have any potential of ever becoming a child. It is a cluster of cells enclosing fluid, period. You can't "murder" a sac of fluid. You also can't murder a "stone baby" ...
quote: This is why our legal system does not use this term -- it is medically inaccurate and misleading. Our legal system embraces a plurality of opinions, not a religious dogma of opinion. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : added second paragraph Edited by RAZD, : stone babyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: No, jar, what "we see" is you finding ways to manipulate words to make true false and false true, that's all. I do not doubt that that is what you see, however reality is exactly as I posted. No one in the US has ever been charged with the crime of objecting to gay marriage. Due Process is one of the rights guaranteed to anyone in the US under our Constitution. No one is prohibited from calling a Muslim a Muslim here or even in Europe. You have even been allowed to call Obama a Muslim even though that too is simply not true. Pornography can well be free speech Faith but do you have any evidence that it corrupts anyone? And finally, in the US murder is still considered a crime.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1663 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No one in the US has ever been charged with the crime of objecting to gay marriage. Clear case of manipulating words to pretend what I said isn't true. When businesses are fined for refusing to cater a gay wedding the refusal is treated as a crime. Your nitpicking is reprehensible. And so are all your other ridiculous arguments.s
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jar Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: When businesses are fined for refusing to cater a gay wedding the refusal is treated as a crime. Discrimination is a crime, regardless of the excuse used. Their excuse is no more a valid defense than any other excuse for breaking the law. It is not an issue of gay marriage but rather flagrant disregard of the law, common sense or basic courtesy.
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KyleConno Junior Member (Idle past 1709 days) Posts: 12 Joined: |
It has been a very very long and slow process of development.
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Taq Member Posts: 10268 Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Faith writes: When businesses are fined for refusing to cater a gay wedding the refusal is treated as a crime. If a person objects to marriages of mixed race, they don't face any jail time or punishment. However, if they run a business and decide not to serve a couple because one of them is black, then they will be fined. Do you understand the difference?
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