The 2016 United States Presidential Election

Well, to be fair, the people who voted for Trump -- they aren't the best and brightest citizens America has to offer. They're ignorant bigots. They're homophobes and racists. They're misogynistic reactionaries.And some, I assume, are good people.

I just dont get the religius nuts, why dont they point him out as the devil. They are so loose with everyone else even obama, but the guy that matches up perfectly nooo.

There are some interesting likely outcomes from the appointments.

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A fast food, minimum wage hating mogul to head the Department Labor.

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That should not really be an issue since that person has said in the past that it makes no sense to hire people for those menial jobs when automation can do it better and cheaper.

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A public school hating, voucher pusher for Department of Education.

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This will be very good news to the inner city Imams since with vouchers tax money can be used to support and expand the madrassa system so every city, every neighborhood can have their own madaris.

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An AGW denier for the head of the Environmental Protection Agency.

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If we can remove the unreasonable limits on producing coal and oil and natural gas as well as all the other natural resources the US has in abundance we can export those resources which will help with the balance of payments and help all the other nations in the world out compete the US in manufacturing while allowing them to preserve their resources, air quality, water quality and standard of living.

Less not forget they are also armed and suffering from mass psychosis.. They now can be told water is not wet and black is red and believe it.
A tenuous situation at best.

There have been times when our conversations have been congenial. I've often called you Mod or Moddy because of that. This topic is particularly problematic though. I'm on edge because of the violent reaction to the election and you obviously share the anti-Trump opinions, which are about as scathing as it's possible to get.I am sorry for all your suffering. I have to ask, though: you seem to go out of your way to stick out in a crowd, or do I have that wrong? I've known gays who have lived the gay lifestyle all their lives and don't make an issue of it. I even have a right-wing gay friend who voted for Trump and is very upset at the left-wing efforts to sabotage the election.About Obama: I mentioned other things besides his grandmother that convinced me of his foreign birth. But I don't accept your argument about her. She spoke in Swahili on the phone call, and the translator is fluent in Swahili. The idea that he got it wrong is really indefensible. There were people around her who knew they had to hide the fact of his birth in Kenya and she's apparently forgotten that. But what she said was clear enough: she was present at his birth in Mombasa, Kenya. I'll post the You Tube video below.It seems like whatever the right can show about such things is always discredited by the left on the basis of our having some personal need to see things as we do. That is of course very insulting. I spent some time looking at the evidence and was persuaded by it. Now perhaps you and others weren't, but I and others were. Evidence, not bias.So again, I've regarded Obama as an illegal President for all these eight years. It's because the Left is so good at discrediting even the best evidence and hiding their many deceits sufficiently to fool most people that I do wonder if they will be able to steal this election after all. If they do I'll know I'm living under a fascist-style totalitarian system that even a hopeful election like the one we just had can't break.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Faith, why are you so adamant about a long-discredited claim? Why would it have mattered if he were born in another country (SUBJUNCTIVE ALERT!)? Do you think that a candidate having been born in another country would disqualify him/her from being President?

This is so bizarre. Do you understand that the only thing that really matters here is where his mom was born? Even if Obama was born in Kenya, he would still have been considered a natural born citizen?For you it is clearly as if nothing matters, not facts, not the law, not the 100% proof that he was born in Hawaii. For you, Obama's presidency was still illegal. And then you wonder why nearly all of your arguments here fail to gain any following or credit.

Write stuff like this... "Why are you being you? I have gay friends. Just go back in the closet so I can be comfortable."

I've never understood the objection. Naturally born US citizenship includes both by parentage and by place of birth, so even if Barak Obama had no Hawaiin birth certificate and had instead been born in Kenya he would still be a naturally born US citizen because his mother was a US citizen. Ted Cruz, born in Canada, is a naturally born US citizen for the same reason.--Percy

I know, I keep coming back because sometimes that sweet you comes out That's understandable - but then:

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I mean, unbelievable. I don't know how women can vote for someone who said what he said about Megyn Kelly, it’s terrible...And we knew what he meant too -Barbara Bush

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I wanted my grandkids to see that I simply couldn’t ignore what Mr. Trump was saying and doing, which revealed a character and temperament unfit for the leader of the free world - Mitt Romney

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We have got to stop Trump. Whatever it takes without cheating or violating the rules of the Republican primaries -- Tom DeLay

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I won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he isn't. He isn't a Republican. He isn't a conservative. He isn't a truth teller. I also won't vote for Donald Trump because of who he is. A bigot. A misogynist. A fraud. A bully. -- Norm Coleman

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Ultimately, I could not abide the hateful rhetoric of Donald Trump and his complete lack of principles and conservative philosophy. I didn’t make this decision lightly -- Sally Bradshaw

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I cannot and will not support Donald Trump for president -- Marc Racicot

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I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me -- Chris Shays

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This guy has real personal problems and we don't want somebody like him in office, -- Mickey Edwards

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At some point you have to put country over party...I think he's dangerous. I think he is mentally and emotionally unfit to be president. -- Tom Coleman

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{Trump} captured that racist underbelly, that frustration, that angry underbelly of American life and gave voice to that...I was damn near puking during the debates -- Michael Steele

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For me, it is not enough to simply denounce {Trump’s} comments: He is unfit to serve our party and cannot lead this country -- Richard Hanna

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His comments over the weekend are authenticating what I believe is the man's character,...Something that walks like a duck, talks like a duck, is likely to be a duck. If you continue to say what I believe are racist statements, you're likely to be a racist. -- Reid Ribble

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I’m out. I can no longer in good conscience endorse {Trump} for president. It is some of the most abhorrent and offensive comments that you can possibly imagine -- Jason Chaffetz

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Donald Trump's behavior makes him unacceptable as a candidate for president and I won't vote for him -- Martha Roby

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His behavior and bravado have reached a new low. I cannot vote for him...For the good of the party, he should step aside. -- Mia Love

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I never endorsed Trump and I cannot in good conscience support or vote for a man who degrades women, insults minorities and has no clear path to keep our country safe -- Will Hurd

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While I’ve never before endorsed a Presidential candidate, I’ve felt compelled to strongly condemn many of Mr. Trump’s previous outrageous remarks. And after serious consideration, I have decided that I cannot support either candidate for President -- Steve Knight

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As a strong and vocal advocate for victims of sex trafficking and assault, I must be true to those survivors and myself and condemn the predatory and reprehensible comments of Donald Trump -- Ann Wagner

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But it was his attacks directed at people who could not respond on an equal footingeither because they do not share his power or stature or because professional responsibility precluded them from engaging at such a levelthat revealed Mr. Trump as unworthy of being our president -- Susan Collins

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Donald Trump’s behavior this week, concluding with the disclosure of his demeaning comments about women and his boasts about sexual assaults, make it impossible to continue to offer even conditional support for his candidacy -- John McCain

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I am a mom and an American first, and I cannot and will not support a candidate who brags about degrading and assaulting women -- Kelly Ayotte

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This is the most un-American thing from a politician since Joe McCarthy....If anybody was looking for an off-ramp, this is probably it. -- Lindsey Graham

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After much consideration, I have concluded that Donald Trump has not demonstrated the temperament necessary to assume the greatest office in the world -- Mark Kirk

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He not only objectified women, he bragged about preying upon them. I cannot and will not support Donald Trump for Presidenthe has forfeited the right to be our party's nominee. He must step aside -- Lisa Murkowski

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The actions of the last day are disgusting, but that’s not why I reached this decision, it has been an accumulation of his words and actions that many have been warning about -- John Kasich

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Enough! Donald Trump should not be President. He should withdraw. As a Republican, I hope to support someone who has the dignity and stature to run for the highest office in the greatest democracy on earth -- Condoleeza Rice

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They are all Republicans, Senators, Congressman and other figures. So it's not just because I'm some pinko-lefty. As a child I learned to avoid sticking out in a crowd. Instead I privately suffered alone and in misery, leading me down into a catastrophic series of mental health breakdowns and a series of close shaves with suicide. Pills and therapy had no effect. I still suffer with social anxiety but I am trying to push those anxieties back to society so I don't have live with them so much, but it's a long and terrible struggle. Speaking in public is crippling, but I did learn how to write to communicate my thoughts.Wearing a dress in daily life made me feel confident and happy and overnight my suicidal thoughts vanished for the first time since I was 12 years old. That's about 20 years of hell, expertly trying to blend into the background and feeling miserable and in despair. I have not 'come out' to my family, though I did once wear a skirt in front of them - very recently, it has never been discussed. I'd rather nobody else noticed or cared, and for the most part that is true. Still, I come across assholes who think my clothes are a personal slight on them or something. I've never lived the 'gay lifestyle'. I was too afraid because simply 'being myself' even though I was never 'flamboyant' or 'camp' was sufficient to trigger accusations of faggotry and bullying. I am confident had I been open about things, it'd have been worse, though I may have left it late - I refuse to feel bad for the fear that society has made me endure. I've never seen a pride parade, despite living in a 'gay capital' that has a world famous one, and despite the fact my wife goes every year. That's an Indian language. It was actually a dialect of Swahili. It's not the fluency in Swahili that is the issue, it's the fluency in English that is the problem. Listen to the whole thing, the person he speaking with is not a professional translator and isn't fluent in English. His translation to her is clearly full of pauses. And again, if he knew the secret had to be defended against, why did hea) translate the 'secret'
b) translate the follow-up question and wait for her answer before translating that? She didn't say that.

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MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?

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OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.

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MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

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OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

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MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

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OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

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MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

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OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

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She never said Obama was born in Mombassa. She said the complete opposite of this. Your video cuts off this context because it is clearly posted by someone who doesn't want the clarification and correction to be heard by you.

Precisely why I asked Faith to clarify her reasoning there.If not being born in the United States were to disqualify one as a naturally born citizen, then what about Goldwater (born in the Territory of Arizona), McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone), and Ted Cruz (born in Canada for eh's sake!)?Now, somebody please refresh my memory, but didn't Faith use to support Ted Cruz? So she considers Obama to have been an illegal President but would support Ted Cruz who has so more going against him?Let's compare the two with a point system: 1 point for each parent who's an American citizen and one point for having been born in one of these United States, for a possible total of three points.Obama -- father (foreign = 0 points), mother (US citizen = 1 point), born in Hawaii (in the USA = 1 point). Total points = 2Cruz -- father (foreign = 0 points), mother (US citizen = 1 point), born in Canada (not in the USA = 0 points). Total points = 1So Obama wins over Cruz 2 to 1. Using Faith's reasoning, a President Cruz would have been even more illegal than she considers Obama to be.And if it were to have turned out that Obama was not actually born in the USA, then by Faith's reasoning Cruz, whom I'm sure she supported, would have been just as illegal as she considers Obama to be.But both Faith and her disinformation sources are wrong in thinking that not being born in the USA would invalidate having been born of an American citizen.

Trump is guilty of crudeness. If the alternative weren't Hillary, whose Presidency would be an unmitigated disaster piling on top of the unmitigated disaster of Obama, I might regard his crudeness as sufficient reason not to vote for him; and I almost did as a matter of fact. But it is finally his promises to strengthen what I think of as the REAL America, get us out from under the Leftist America-destroying horror show, bring back prosperity, bring back businesses, bring back jobs, put us above our enemies, honor our laws, honor liberty and justice for all, and all that, that decided me to vote for him, decided me STRONGLY to vote for him. If he ends up betraying these promises I'll reconsider. But the threat of Hillary is still a powerful motivator to support him. This view of things totally trumps all those quotes you gave -- some of which are ridiculous anyway, blowing way out of proportion his crude remarks about women into accusations that he wouldn't defend children from assault and all that. When they go that far out, forget it, Also accusing us of racism and xenophobia. Sorry, I know I'm being sold propaganda. He's not going to cause damage at all, that's another false claim. Hysteria.Again I'm very sorry to hear what you have been through. Sorry there haven't been better resources for you. I'd give you a hug if that would help. I've always been incapable of public speaking too.As I said, there were plenty of other reasons I believe Obama was not born in America, and I'm still not buying the story about the phone call.A reason for the natural-born requirement was to protect the nation against foreign influence. Well, in my view we've had eight years of foreign influence in the White House -- sedition, sabotage, treachery -- whatever the status of his birth.And for all those who want to argue that he'd be legit even if born in Kenya, even with a Kenyan father, how come so much effort has gone into faking the evidence of his birth in America? Cuz faked it certainly is.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I suspect that you do understand. But here it is: Canadians are just like us for all practical purposes. Kenyans are them. Obama ain't us and his mom is irrelevant.Throw in a disinclination to believe anything good about folks you don't like by at least some, along with some partisan ill-will, and you have a perfectly good explanation for the objection.Edited by NoNukes, : Change through to throw.

Message 1357

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I'd like to believe dwise is right and that Obama WAS born in Kenya, for which there is a ton of evidence, but that his mother's being an American citizen makes him one too. That way the Constitution isn't violated, which was the disturbing thing about all this.

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But that raises the question why this wasn't recognized a long time ago, and also why nobody here seems to care whether the Constitution was violated or not.

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https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

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The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term natural born citizen would
mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship
by birth or at birth, either by being born
in the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born
abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born
in other situations meeting legal requirements for
U.S. citizenship at birth. Such term, however
, would not include a person who was not a U.S.
citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an alien required to go through the legal
process of naturalization to become a U.S. citizen.

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Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

What does the law say on the subject, Faith? And why is there no problem with Cruz whose claim is slightly less strong that Obama's. Quite obviously the facts don't matter.