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Author Topic:   The Great Creationist Fossil Failure
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 721 of 1163 (793913)
11-07-2016 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 719 by PaulK
11-07-2016 3:21 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
Let me clarify , I was referring to marine conditions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 719 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2016 3:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 723 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2016 3:25 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 722 of 1163 (793914)
11-07-2016 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 714 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2016 3:05 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
You say: "As soft-bodied bilaterians, things like, say, Dickinsonia do seem like plausible precursors to bilaterians with exoskeletons, with species with cataphract armor as an intermediate stage."
Please post your evidence. what are your sources?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 714 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 3:05 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 742 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 9:51 AM mindspawn has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 723 of 1163 (793915)
11-07-2016 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 721 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:23 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
And you don't think that world-wide marine oxygen concentrations have any relationship to the oxygen content of the atmosphere ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:23 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 724 of 1163 (793916)
11-07-2016 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:09 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
Statements without evidence mean nothing. Someone mentioned Ediacaran organisms as intermediate fossils to explain the sudden appearance of multiple organisms in the Cambrian Explosion. There is nothing intermediate about those fossils. So you need to support your claim of intermediate forms.
Well, they're more primitive than the Cambrian fauna, which acquired hard parts, this being the definition of the Cambrian explosion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:09 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 725 of 1163 (793917)
11-07-2016 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 718 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:20 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
Strong outward diversity exists in two different animals even though these are the same "kind". Having the same DNA markers and same common ancestor.
I agree that organisms with a common ancestor can end up very dissimilar. For example: you and an oak tree have a common ancestor and yet are markedly different.
What I don't see is why you wish to appeal to this fact, rather than, for example, vociferously denying it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:20 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:35 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 726 of 1163 (793918)
11-07-2016 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 702 by Theodoric
11-06-2016 6:27 PM


Re: The bible: 14 pairs
Context is pretty clear. Its referring to breeding pairs of every kind. That is what Noah did. He brought breeding pairs of every kind onto the boat. Some kinds he brought on 7 breeding pairs, some kinds, just one breeding pair. I don't see any clear restriction to only one pair in Genesis 6 and 7.
Bring on breeding pairs from every kind.
Sometimes seven breeding pairs, sometimes one breeding pair.
It's splitting semantic hairs to see any contradiction there. The bible was not a legal document.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 702 by Theodoric, posted 11-06-2016 6:27 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 745 by Theodoric, posted 11-07-2016 12:42 PM mindspawn has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 727 of 1163 (793919)
11-07-2016 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 720 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:21 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
quote:
I explained myself. I don't believe humans evolved from primitive chordates. That then is a strawman argument.
It is not a strawman. It is a logical consequence of claiming the sudden appearance of phyla as evidence for creation. If you want to claim that particular groups are individual creations you need to establish that THOSE groups "suddenly appeared".
Seeing the implications of your arguments is a far different thing from constructing a strawman. Saying that using the "sudden appearance" of phyla as evidence of creation implicitly identifies phyla as "kinds" is not talking about what you believe - but it is talking about what your arguments are saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:21 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 728 of 1163 (793920)
11-07-2016 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 725 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2016 3:28 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
That argument is from evolutionary assumption. You cannot use the unproven theory of evolution as evidence for evolution. You also need to start giving evidence for your statements. My argument is proven from recent research of Australian marsupials. Two vastly outwardly different breeds can have the same genetic structure. In creationist terms this speaks of rapid diversity of the same kind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 3:28 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 3:48 AM mindspawn has replied
 Message 730 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2016 4:27 AM mindspawn has not replied
 Message 731 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2016 5:30 AM mindspawn has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 729 of 1163 (793921)
11-07-2016 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 728 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:35 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
That argument is from evolutionary assumption. You cannot use the unproven theory of evolution as evidence for evolution.
We proved it. No-one told you?
But in any case, you're missing my point. You, not I, pointed to these marsupials and admitted that they were very different, and admitted that they have a common ancestor. I am of course glad that you admit this, but puzzled to know why you think it's a point in your favor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:35 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 732 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 6:42 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 730 of 1163 (793922)
11-07-2016 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 728 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:35 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
mindspawn writes:
That argument is from evolutionary assumption...
Nope. You suffer the same disease all creationists suffer from. Not knowing enough. In science, those relevant scientists have evidence for their assumptions.
Also, biological evolution is not an assumption. It's a fact-based conclusion.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:35 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 731 of 1163 (793923)
11-07-2016 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 728 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 3:35 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
mindspawn writes:
That argument is from evolutionary assumption....
Nope. It's not assumption. Seeing the header of this threat, have a look at http://www.stratigraphy.org/...t/ChronostratChart2016-10.pdf. Fossils.
Those different colours you see are not rock "layers" at all. They are time periods. What different organisms lived together at the same time.
Read the whole website. It's from the International Committee on Stratigraphy. Read exactly how the international geological commutiny get to their conclusions. In there you'll read what the Cambrian System/Period is. In there you will also read about the Cambrian. You can read about what the fossils found in the Fortunian, Stages 2, 3, 4, 5, the Drumian, Guzhangian, Paibian, Jiangshan, and Stage 10 Stages/ Ages are. Together with the absolute dates.
You will also read about stratigraphy, Biozones, etc.
Evolution is not an assumption. It's a conclusion.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 3:35 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 734 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 6:54 AM Pressie has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 732 of 1163 (793926)
11-07-2016 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 729 by Dr Adequate
11-07-2016 3:48 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
you say evolution has been proved it, but there exists no core evidence for the theory of evolution.
Nearly every modern organism has more coding genes than a prokaryote, therefore evolution needs to prove that unique coding genes can be produced in nature. The only evidence I have seen is a dormant gene whose function was re-introduced through a mutation. That is not a unique coding gene.
So evolution is without evidence for the sudden appearance of most phyla, and is without evidence for the basic process that explains the existence of nearly every organism as per evolutionary theory. That is quite a lack.
Transitional sequences sometimes do exist, but even this merely proves rapid outward adaptation. Most transitional sequences are unproven guesswork that could very well represent the diversity of multiple kinds, rather than adaptation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 3:48 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2016 6:52 AM mindspawn has not replied
 Message 740 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 9:33 AM mindspawn has not replied
 Message 743 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-07-2016 9:55 AM mindspawn has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 733 of 1163 (793927)
11-07-2016 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 732 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 6:42 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
This one is funny, too.
mindspawn writes:
... you say evolution has been proved it, but there exists no core evidence for the theory of evolution
He-he-he. "Core evidence". It's like a "Golden Bullet". It seems as if mindspawn really is not too bright when it comes to how science works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 6:42 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2690 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 734 of 1163 (793928)
11-07-2016 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 731 by Pressie
11-07-2016 5:30 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
Looking at your chart, yes there are geological layers. Yes there are always predominant organisms in each age. Yet some organisms survive in niche areas and the fossils of niche orgaisms will always be difficult to find. This is why the coelecanth was such a surprise, it wasn't seen in multiple layers and was therefore presumed extinct. Yet it was always there throughout the epochs. The predictability of creationism is that increasingly modern organisms will be found in the lower layers, and sometimes ancient organisms will be found living today. This is what we find.
I just don't see how some organisms being predominant in certain epochs is somehow proof of evolution. Please explain why your link is in any manner any proof of evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 731 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2016 5:30 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2016 6:56 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 735 of 1163 (793929)
11-07-2016 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 734 by mindspawn
11-07-2016 6:54 AM


Re: THE GREAT EVOLUTION FOSSIL FAILURE
minspawn writes:
Looking at your chart, yes there are geological layers.
Wrong in your first sentence. Those are not layers.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by mindspawn, posted 11-07-2016 6:54 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
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