Glenn Morton's Evidence Examined

Forget the canyon itself, the existence of the plateau is sufficient evidence to make the idea of a Young Earth the truly silly fantasy that it is in reality.The rims of the Grand Canyon are over a mile above sea level yet there is irrefutable evidence that some of the layers were once below sea level. There is simply no possible way any flood could form such layers and then also place additional terrestrial layers on top or move the layers from below sea level to over a mile above sea level.

But the very existence of the plateau is more than sufficient reason to throw the idea of Young Earth on the dump where it belongs.Remember so far no one has presented evidence that any of the Biblical flood stories are true or factual but the evidence of the existence of the plateau is irrefutable.

Faith's position is even sillier. She is claiming that all the layers are sediment deposited by the flood and then the canyon created by outflow after the flood. She's got to present a model that will bring in (from ??? ) the sediments, sort them by type, deposit them in layers, somehow tilt up parts and erode parts away from between layers and the after all the layers are stratified have some run off form the canyon itself.That's gonna be interesting. Then maybe she can also 'splain the marine deposits raise over a mile above sea level.Old Earth and the Biblical Flood are simply to ludicrous to take seriously.

One thing I think important is to remind Faith that meanders are formed by more than just erosion. They are formed when both erosion and deposition are happening at the same time, by a body of water that has both faster and slower moving currents. The faster current erodes the outside of a curve while the slower currents deposit material on the inside of the curve. Gradually over time this stretches the neck of the meander.However, floods create an entirely different pattern and in fact remove meanders as well as form oxbow lakes. During floods the water rises high enough to cut a channel through the neck of the meander which consists of the recently deposited material straightening the river and leaving the meander itself isolated as a lake or fossil channel.

Actually Faith, no, that is NOT what it shows at all. The "V" shape to the Grand Canyon is an indicator of a valley cut by long term down cutting of the rock. The width at the top is not an indication of the width of the river but rather simply the effects of weathering and erosion over long, long, long periods of time. It is yet another

I have read what you write Faith but unfortunately what you write is simply refuted by reality.You have proposed that the material the Colorado River cuts through was deposited by the claimed flood.Okay, but again you have not explained two really, really, really necessary things.First your fantasy flood would have to get all that sediment, weather and erode it from some place else, carry it to that location, sort all the sediment by original formation process, deposit the sediment by original formation process, then raise the whole column over a mile.Second, once all that was done you need to cut the canyon and explain how the meanders were formed.But even after you do all that, you still face the impossible task of showing that there ever was such a flood and that the Earth is young. Remember, all the material that is now the walls of the Grand Canyon had to have first been formed somewhere else and by plain old conventional geological processes and not the magical fantasy call the Biblical flood.Sorry Faith but there is absolutely no reason other than willful ignorance for anyone to accept the absurdity of a Young Earth.Edited by jar, : to ---> tWo

In addition to the fact that all of the geological evidence shows the Earth is really, really old every other avenue of exploration confirms Old Earth.According to the Young Earth nonsense humans were created along with the moon during the first week or so. But if we look at the moon we can see an enormous number of craters and yet there are no reports of explosions on the moon from humans.The moon has one side that always faces the earth. It would take longer than 10,000 years to create that arrangement.I can see stars at night, and even objects that are further away than would be possible if the Earth were young.The Green River Varves exist. There we see over 4,000,000 alternating light colored and dark colored, fine grained and coarse grained sediment layers. As I pointed out in Message 44 of Lake Varve Sediments and the Great Flood:

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They can only settle on the bottom. That is what is so clear about this example. We have over 4,000,000 instances of a finer material being laid down followed by a slightly coarser layer then another finer layer, another coarser layer.

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To get that fine a silt to settle out the water must be near still, followed by the more active flow to provide the slightly coarser layer, followed another quiescent period.

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This is not sand but silt and we can deal with how to make silt after someone explains How to make sand., but for now, you need to present the model that explains over 4 million layers of finer silt then coarser silt, lighter silt then darker silt.

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So lets look at your 4 million catastrophic events. If it happened over the 6000 year period you have mentioned that is over 666 events a year, about two a day, every day right up through yesterday. Likely someone might have noticed.

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In that case it also eliminates a flood during those 6000 years.

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If it happened during the flood year it is about 11,000 repeating cycles a day or something over 450 such events every hour, more than seven every minute.

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Now remember this is such fine silt that it will stay suspended unless the water is standing still for a considerable period of time.

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So once again, what is your model for the 4 million plus alternating layers of finer and coarser, lighter and darker material?

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Uranium Halos exist.The Okla Reactor exists.All of the biological evidence points to Old Earth and change over time.Every new technology that can measure elapsed time confirms Old Earth.Sand exists.Salt beds exist and can be found buried under thousands of feet of rock.So there are ten more good reasons to throw Young Earth away.

Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense at least in the English language.If the Colorado River canyon began on a flat plain how could it be very deep when it started? On a flat plain water simply spreads out.

Another reason to throw the idea of a Young Earth on the trash heap of history are all the human habitation sites over 10,000 years old just in the Americas.There's Topper that pushes human occupation in the Americas back over 40,000 years.And Bluefish caves.And Meadowcroft Rock Shelter.And Monte Verde in southern Chile.There's Anzic-1 and the Haida peoples of British Columbia.There's Cactus Hill and Saltville in Virginia.Since it is very likely that there were human population in the Americas thousands of years before the creation dates marketed by Young Earth Creationists the whole idea of a young Earth is once again refuted.

And may also be positional; during one episode there will be deposition upstream of a damming event with minor erosion down stream followed by major erosion down stream after the dam bursts.

And the additional point that changes do leave evidence and as you point out above, from that evidence supported conclusions can be formed.How the Grand Canyon formed and the Colorado Plateau was formed and raised is not simply assumptions, not simply interpretations but rather conclusions based on an overwhelming body of disparate evidence from a variety of sciences that all support the same explanation.

There is much that does not make sense.Faith claims that all of the material above the bedrock was deposited by the alleged flood.That makes the whole column a marine sediment example (although granted a really minor short lived marine environment lasting no more than a single year) and so it must show those characteristics that identify a marine deposit. Those characteristics are really well known and one is a moderated horizontal deposition of material in layers sorted by flow speed.Since we are dealing with a flood there will be an initial disturbed scouring phase followed by the calm period when material can be deposited. That is when the material above the bedrock was deposited. That will result in horizontal layered deposits with the densest material at the bottom and the finest least dense material at the top.But the material deposited will already be flat and horizontal and level; there is no need for any receding flow to wash anything flat.Those conditions are easy to verify.Are the layers above the bed rock flat, horizontal and level?Well no, they are not.Are the layers above the bed rock sorted with the densest material at the bottom and the finest least dense material at the top?Well no, they are not.The conclusion is obvious and irrefutable. The geological column of material above the bed rock at the Colorado Plateau was not laid down during any single event.Throw the Biblical flood on the trash heap as a possible explanation for the existence of the Plateau.AbE:The significance of the above is that for the purpose of this topic whether or not the Grand Canyon was formed by the alleged flood is totally irrelevant. The Biblical Flood as described in either of the Bible stories cannot explain the existence of the Colorado Plateau. There is no other explanation available that can explain the existence of the Colorado Plateau other than an Old, Old, Old, Old, Old Earth, one that is billions of years old.Young Earth should be thrown on the trash heap of history.Edited by jar, : appalin grammur last -----> lastingEdited by jar, : see AbE:

Sorry Faith but reality once again must be considered.The definition of a marine environment is material deposited in a large body of water. Water covering the whole world might be considered a large body of water.

The original Saudi oil fields were discovered using YEC methods. They drilled for water but hit oil instead.

One big reason is basic honesty. After realizing that absolutely none of the Young Earth Creationists claims are supported by any evidence and that the Young Earth Creationist position is incapable of explaining anything seen in reality basic honesty should drive a person to look for answers that actually relate to reality and can explain what is actually seen.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title