A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto

You don't get it? Shall I say thats pitiful?

Yup, I don't get it and what is pitiful?

You want me to defend your position? Touche

Well anyway, lets move on to the Humanist Manifesto III the final of three manifestos. I guess I find nothing wrong with this affirmation. Rational thought is always better than jumping to dogmatic conclusions. I wish I could be so optimistic, but I am haunted by the beliefs that I adopted which said that in the so-called End Times people would reject organized religion and embrace just this sort of philosophy. A character known as the AntiChrist would then come to power and cause living hell for 7 years or so before Jesus came back and took names...correcting the evil attempt at dominance. Im not sure exactly what I believe regarding end times any more. If jar is right and Original Sin was only a made-up con job than this statement will work. Otherwise we are headed for trouble. If anything at all worries me about this third manifesto, it is the idea of an interdependent one world system. I am skeptical whether such a system will preserve our standard of living. I am skeptical whether or not folks will get along naturally. I am fearful of the dogma I was taught concerning the last days and whether or not it will come true. I am honestly fearful of throwing god away.Finally, even though i am a dogmatic obstructionist at heart, I am one of the better ones...for I am smarter than most of them. I worry about what the Biblical Christians will do when faced with the possibility of such a world. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I'm also not sure what to expect but more and more Christians are expecting some kind of worldwide political manifestation soon that is thought of as a Final Act before Jesus returns. But it's not a nonreligious system, it's a religion that will present itself as Christianity though also incorporating most of the religions of the world, and most of the world will consider it to be Christianity. The whole idea of an Antichrist doesn't make sense unless he puts himself in the place of Christ and heads up a religion in Christ's name. (My favorite for the position is the Pope.)Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Nope factually wrong yet again.Christians have been saying this since the crucifiction. Never happened, never will.Now there are fewer Christians and, of those, fewer fundies believing daft things like that. You're a dwinding minority.

I wonder how many Christian ministries you keep tabs on, from which you get emails and news reports and that sort of thing? Not very many I'd guess, but these are my source of the impression that there is a striking increase in the expectation among Christians that we are witnessing the beginning of the End Times. Ever since I became a believer in the late 80s there has been a fair amount of end times talk among Christians, but that's increased enormously over about the last decade. Ministries that don't usually have much to say about it are now talking about it.ABE: I've actually heard some of the big-name preachers on the radio giving sermons on how to live under the sort of persecution that would be faced in the End Times, and though you may think this is standard fare I can assure you it is not, it's quite startling to be hearing such messages. /abeBut perhaps I'm missing what you think is my factual error? Please enlighten. Ah, that old canard. Oh well. That could be, but this dwindling minority does seem to be more strongly than ever convinced the Grand Finale is rapidly approaching. I've even heard reports that it's not just Christians who have this sense of something big coming. However, as I said, there's been buzz on the subject ever since I became a believer, so even though it appears to be increasing and spreading, it could be some time before it's realized.If it waits too long of course I'll have to give up on my idea that this Pope is going to be the Antichrist. He's already up there in years. But there's a neverending supply of Popes. It's just that this one is such a good candidate, the very first Jesuit, very ecumenical and aggressive about including everybody under the wing of the RCC, and arguably even more popular than John Paul.I wonder if the Humanists will embrace him? He's so willing to embrace everybody, including humanists and atheists and probably even Satanists, that's quite possible. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

1. The absolute and relative decline of Christianity
2. The absolute and relative decline of biblical fundamentalism amongst Christians
3. The abject failure of all prior predictions of end-times.Do I really need to provide you with numbers? You are hearing more because you want to hear it. When you buy a new car you start to see them everywhere. It's all very obvious stuff. You have no sense of history or perspective. Yes, the one where prophets predict the end of the world in every generation and it doesn't happen.

I don't know if there's truth in what you say about the decline or it's just your wishful thinking. I know Christianity has just about disappeared in Europe and the UK, but that's a limited frame of reference since it's growing in China and other parts of the world. However, assuming you are right it makes an interesting bit of evidence FOR The end times, because what has to happen for all that to play out is for all the fake forms of Christianity to get united together in the One World Religion headed by the Antichrist, leaving only a "remnant" of true believers.The failure of prior predictions is a really weird one, since rather than proving the prophecies wrong it just brings us closer to their fulfillment. The Jews were looking for the appearance of the Messiah for some time too, misidentifying various characters who presented themselves, and when the true Messiah came some recognized Him but many didn't. I think we'll have a similar situation as the end times unfold. Many are going to miss it the way so many missed getting on the ark and got swept away in the Flood. I think you are the one who fails at that but be that as it may, my "new car" is getting awfully old for your notion to hold up. Instead of an increase in awareness of the end times I should be seeing a decrease if your analogy to the car made any sense.Is there any way to fit this into the topic or is it hopelessly lost?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It applies only in that the Humanist manifestos are similar to what many Christian End Timers have been saying will be the new touchy feely global religion---a religion free of dogma and absolutes where humans simply love each other---no God needed.
I could almost see Donald Trump entering the Temple and telling God He was fired!
The Antichrist will affirm the god within all of us and claim that there is no external Deity---that we are the only god there ever will be.(Sounds a bit like Greatest I AM)
Gnostic Humanist Christianity---aligned with a new pacifist Islam and other former global religions...seems like a great idea but again, as i have said before...only if jars belief that there is no such thing as Original Sin is proven true. In which case jar would be right in that there is no need for Divine Intervention nor a Second Coming. He believes that WE humans are ultimately responsible.
Time will tell which belief turns out to be correct.

Again Phat, let me say what I believe. And think about what you write. If humans are not ultimately responsible then God is responsible for all the problems. Or God is unable to successfully oppose some other force or unwilling to.That makes God a royal asshole.But what I actually say is that even if Original Sin were real it is irrelevant. We are still responsible for what we do.The great con is selling the idea that some belief or act or payment can mediate the effects of Original Sin. And it is both a very successful con as well as an absolutely legal con; bettern the lottery.It is selling the idea that God or Jesus will assume your debts.But the reality is that there is no evidence that God has actively intervened in the past.

The Christian End Timers have a vested interest in circling the wagons against the world. "Bring your cash inside the circle. Don't waste it on touchy feely things like feeding the hungry. Give it to us and we'll use it for the Glory of God."

Any discussion of original sin can continue here. I seriously doubt whether all or even most Of the so-called Christian End timers believe this way. They know darn well that money will be all but worthless. They like gold, however. As far as the touchy feely...we realize that feeding the world is noble. What we worry about is the idea that god is in all of us and that an external Deity is un needed. This will prove to be a giant lie for society...to fall for this innocent and benevolent sounding altruistic belief.

How odd to think the End Timers stand to benefit in any way from the End Times. The basic idea is that the world will be run by fallen humanity, though calling itself Christianity, and everybody is going to love the Antichrist -- except the real Christians -- he's going to be very popular, offer the world all those solutions to problems found in the Humanist Manifestoes, along with some good old time pagan religion, very likely complete with some pretty fancy witchcraft to dazzle and bemuse. Until he brings back the Inquisition and the Holocaust and all the other murderous programs of the various isms we've seen over the last century, all of which may be part of the great tribulation that is supposed to begin about midway through his seven-year reign. By the time all that gets going you may not like him very much either. "The world" should love and worship him during the honeymoon period though. But my point was that we fundies will be his first victims. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You seem to acknowledge that your fears are irrational, bravo! If you view the bible as simply an ancient code of living, authority and law, it is plain to see that the end times dogma is just an empty threat. Likewise with hell, threaten the people to ensure they are good little believers. It's no wonder they found that religious people are more responsive to fear. And if I am right, original sin is largely responsible for our apparently greedy etc, nature. If you tell everyone as children that humans are bad and greedy, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Epigenetic effects and the way our brains are wired throughout our growth determine our personalities to a far greater extent than genetics alone. I agree with the former, but would add that I think it has more to do with allowing yourself to think freely, than brute intelligence.If a world govt system is put in place by the current mob of plutocrats, under the same financial system, I will not welcome it either.