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Author | Topic: Faith vs Science | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The fact that every time we look for evidence of an intelligence that is ultimately responsible for our existence we do not find any. Did it ever occur to you that this intelligence does not want us to find any evidence? Being unable to find evidence of an-intelligence-that-is-ultimately-responsible-for-the-fact-that-we-exist is itself evidence that an intelligence is not ultimately responsible for the fact that we exist.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Lamark, you are using human wisdom to try and explain scripture. This simply will not work. It leads to long posts that basically teach us nothing. Quit trying to convince yourself and others something which you dont even understand how to believe.
Drop that zoroastrianism stuff...its worthless. If you believe in your heart that Jesus was raised from the Dead and confess it with your mouth you will be saved. Its just that simple. As for any critics, I have seen people transformed by simply doing just that.| My evidence is based on the transformation in others which I saw.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So, for the umpteenth time, why is it that so many people claim to be "transformed" but only others who claim to be transformed can see the transformation? You bring up a good point. While it is true that many Biblical Christians claim that once saved always saved...and that only members of the club are special...the fact is that if someone-anyone-is transformed than everyone can see the change and the difference---not just Christians. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Of course scripture says that without Faith it is impossible to please God. Secular critics assert that without evidence it is impossible to prove God. They then go on to cite "evidence" from scholars of various gods,deities,spaghetti monsters and other vain imaginations from the human animal as their summation that God does not exist. I have subjective data in my mind and heart that God not only exists but desires a relationship with each of us. Critics would counter that I believe only what I was culturally taught and that apart from that, I have nothing. Problem being that they demand evidence before they will allow themselves faith.
Hebrews 11:1 writes: Thats NIV...so lets dig a bit deeper.
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.quote: Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You are a stubborn one.
It's of no consequence today apart from its extant delusional effect on the superstitious. It's just one of many mythological beliefs. I honestly don't think so. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The problem is not science in general---it makes sense, is verifiable, and passes most critical thinking tests. The problem is when science is used to explain origins. Science is NOT the origen, nor is Stephen Hawking anywhere near brilliant enough to come up with a hypothesis that explains origin. If he were that smart he would be able to walk...indeed fly.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Science WILL create life from chemicals at some point, possibly in the next decade. That will push 'origin' arguments back to questions about who or what made chemicals instead of life. Religion is finding its areas of movement very restricted, it's being pushed further and further into a corner. Pretty soon now all that will be left as a religious explanation for creation will be theism and eventually some physicist with the brain the size of a god will crack that one too. Psalms 49:3 writes: Were I a betting man, I would take a heart over a brain any day of the week. My mouth will speak words of wisdom; the meditation of my heart will give you understanding.I also realize that scriptures don't impress you--bear with me as I also do with your presumptions. Psalms 111:10 writes:
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.Proverbs 1:7 writes: Indeed, fools think they are wise. Often those who are in fact wise are also humble. They know their source.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 4:6 writes: Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. 1 Corinthians 1:18 writes: For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. Notice Stephen Hawking... As brilliant as he is, he questions the universe yet does not question God. Any good scientist wouldn't rule the possibility of God out now would they?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
God Is Not Dead
The Goat Herders were not so vain as to rely on their own imagination nor intelligence. By Faith they knew God. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Start with this. And yes...any good scientist reviews all of the evidence. Response to Stephen Hawking
You quote chunks of biblical bollox at me? In a science thread? Do you really expect me to even read it? Are you really so narrow minded as to ignore any challenges to your world view? You are not dead yet, Tangle.
I really don't care who questions or doesn't question god. It's only facts that matter. So examine all of the evidence before concluding your worldview. Not everyone who is a believer is an idiot. Some are far wiser than you or I. And yes, this is a science forum. Deal with it. We are studying human psychology.
Here's a clue, part of the process of submitting a scientific paper is to include its limitations - say what hasn't been tested that might be an alternate answer to your conclusion or not produce as generalisable result. Have you read all of them? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle,referring to Stephen Hawking writes: Note what you just said. Their imaginings.... Lets do a word study on the word imagine, shall we?
We'll have to wait - possibly forever - as some of his and his colleague's imaginings may be impossible to confirm. At the level of big physics these things approach belief.Tangle writes: Since you did study the book for years, you will appreciate this word study then. Please correct me if I seem too clever...since the purpose of this study is to show the intelligence of the authors rather than myself. Oh give over Phat. There's absolutely nothing new to be found in the bible. It's been exactly the same for 2,000 years. I studied it for years and believed in it the same way you do now. It was my world view - been there, done that. For this study, we will use the KJV since it lines up with Strongs Concordance.
Imagine quote: Quite simply I am attempting to show that when men imagined something, it was usually their own vain imagination. There were times, however, where their imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans. Edited by Phat, : clarificationChance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This is just preaching - there were no such times. You have no evidence of this either. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You may be right. I hope not, however.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
There were times, however, where (human) imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination working through His Prophets and chosen people..rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans in general.
- there were no such times......You know how this works Phat, it's your claim that the world worked in a different way than it does now some indeterminate time ago; I'm calling you on it, it's your job to demonstrate it. All I can say is that perhaps in our lifetime we may see evidence that convinces us one way or the other. You may become more convinced that there were and are such times, or i may finally be persuaded that you were right all along. Time will tell. In the meantime, enjoy life and try your best.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
here were times, however, where (human) imagination was of God...chiefly because it was His creative Spirit...His imagination working through His Prophets and chosen people..rather than the limited vain imagination of fallible humans in general.edge writes: Yoyu mean our imagination isnt a god? Scientifically you are absolutely correct. I may perceive and believe that God speaks through humans..but no way can I prove it. I do have a scrip that gives me internal verification,however.
That's what they say here in Colorado, too. But it isn't a god.2 Peter 1:20-21 writes: I realize that this is meaningless to a critical thinker who denies belief in favor of evidence...so in conclusion, I will say that scientifically I cannot write a thesis on how to know God...at least one that differed from what scripture says....I would quote scripture only because i believe that one can not improve the original wording. Apart from all that, in order for believers to demonstrate how they know God, one would have to follow them around with a camera and a mic...without them knowing...to witness the behavior of the individual.
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. I would say that you would be witnessing and documenting God through the behavior of a human. You may argue that my evidence was insufficient to differentiate a believer from a non believer. So here we are. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The original topic here was:
quote: The main reason I brought this topic back was to address Faiths rant over at Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. For the YEC, I ask if there should be a different definition as to what science is apart from critical thinking and the scientific method. If as claimed the Bible is used as a source, should it simply be allowed to be accepted as a valid source or does it require some sort of standard (apart from Jesus Christ Himself)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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