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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 256 of 942 (788803)
08-04-2016 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
02-04-2015 7:45 AM


RAZR answers marc9000 question about who is causing the earth to warm.
The human race as an aggregate whole, in spite of the efforts of some to decrease it. When you drive a car or ride a bus you are contributing.
I take this to mean that man made additions of carbon dioxide warm the planet. Where is your proof?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 02-04-2015 7:45 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by jar, posted 08-04-2016 10:13 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 258 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-04-2016 10:32 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 269 by herebedragons, posted 08-06-2016 2:21 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 304 by RAZD, posted 11-19-2016 8:25 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 257 of 942 (788804)
08-04-2016 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by foreveryoung
08-04-2016 9:47 PM


foreveryoung writes:
RAZR answers marc9000 question about who is causing the earth to warm.
The human race as an aggregate whole, in spite of the efforts of some to decrease it. When you drive a car or ride a bus you are contributing.
I take this to mean that man made additions of carbon dioxide warm the planet. Where is your proof?
That is one of those truly stupid questions the totally ignorant and clueless bring up regularly and no matter how often folk laugh at their antics they never seem to learn.
The issue is that global warming is happening.
Whether the causes are natural or man made is totally irrelevant since the only causes we can deal with are those that are man made.
The worst case scenario is if the causes are all natural; in that case we are simply up shits creek without a paddle.
We do know though that there are man made contributions. And those we can address.
Only a fool tries to assign blame instead of taking action where we actually can take action.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by foreveryoung, posted 08-04-2016 9:47 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:41 AM jar has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 258 of 942 (788805)
08-04-2016 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by foreveryoung
08-04-2016 9:47 PM


I take this to mean that man made additions of carbon dioxide warm the planet. Where is your proof?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by foreveryoung, posted 08-04-2016 9:47 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by foreveryoung, posted 08-04-2016 10:46 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 259 of 942 (788806)
08-04-2016 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Dr Adequate
08-04-2016 10:32 PM


And how does this constitute proof? Show your work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-04-2016 10:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-05-2016 1:12 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 260 of 942 (788807)
08-05-2016 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by foreveryoung
08-04-2016 10:46 PM


And how does this constitute proof? Show your work.
That's a measurement, not a calculation. This is, measurably, how carbon dioxide behaves. Therefore, it scatter infrared and so is a greenhouse gas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by foreveryoung, posted 08-04-2016 10:46 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:38 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 261 of 942 (788810)
08-05-2016 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Dr Adequate
08-05-2016 1:12 AM


How do you know the addition of greenhouse gases beyond that which already exist warm the planet?
Atmospheres warm planets beyond that which exists on planets with no atmospheres. What percentage of that extra warmth do you attribute to greenhouse gases and why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-05-2016 1:12 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-05-2016 10:15 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 262 of 942 (788811)
08-05-2016 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by jar
08-04-2016 10:13 PM


If it's all natural, we are not up shit Creek without a paddle. The climate has changed significantly in the history of the earth and has flourished throughout.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by jar, posted 08-04-2016 10:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by frako, posted 08-05-2016 2:27 AM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 266 by jar, posted 08-05-2016 7:51 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 263 of 942 (788815)
08-05-2016 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 1:41 AM


If it's all natural, we are not up shit Creek without a paddle. The climate has changed significantly in the history of the earth and has flourished throughout.
Its not like we had any mass extinctions to worry about one now.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:41 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 3:20 AM frako has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 264 of 942 (788817)
08-05-2016 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by frako
08-05-2016 2:27 AM


And those had nothing to.do with co2. Plus, there was nothing man could have done about it.
There are currently many species extinctions going on now. I don't see us in any mortal danger.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by frako, posted 08-05-2016 2:27 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by frako, posted 08-05-2016 4:48 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 265 of 942 (788818)
08-05-2016 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 3:20 AM


Well actually one the biggest extinction event had a lot to do with c02, also known as the grate dying, 96% of all life went extinct do to a volcano igniting the largest deposit of coal, the spike in co2 caused the oceans to acidify killing of the fishes that then rotted and produced a whuge amount of methane spiraling global warming out of control.
But im glad you dont see us in any danger.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 3:20 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 8:08 PM frako has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 266 of 942 (788820)
08-05-2016 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 1:41 AM


foreveryoung writes:
If it's all natural, we are not up shit Creek without a paddle. The climate has changed significantly in the history of the earth and has flourished throughout.
You might not have noticed but we are not the Earth. Earth itself does not flourish, the lifeforms on the Earth flourish and no, they have not flourished throughout.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:41 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 267 of 942 (788823)
08-05-2016 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 1:38 AM


How do you know the addition of greenhouse gases beyond that which already exist warm the planet?
This is discussed here. Enjoy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 1:38 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 12:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 268 of 942 (788853)
08-05-2016 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by frako
08-05-2016 4:48 AM


Prove your baseless assumptions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by frako, posted 08-05-2016 4:48 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by frako, posted 08-06-2016 3:27 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(2)
Message 269 of 942 (788857)
08-06-2016 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by foreveryoung
08-04-2016 9:47 PM


I take this to mean that man made additions of carbon dioxide warm the planet. Where is your proof?
I posted this a couple years ago as Message 157 It is a simply explanation of the evidence we have for anthropomorphic climate change.
quote:
Empirical evidence for an anthropomorphic source of global warming:
1. There has been a gradual decrease in the amount of energy that is being radiated back into space, as measured from satellites, while the input from the sun has not changed very much.
2. Greenhouse gases (CO2, CH4, water vapor, and O3) can absorb and emit infrared radiation. This ability allows heat to become trapped in the atmosphere and not escape back into space. O2 and N2 are not affected by these wavelengths, and so are not considered greenhouse gases. Thus we have a verifiable mechanism by which heat can be trapped in the atmosphere.
3. Based on bubbles trapped in ice cores, the atmospheric CO2 level before the start of the industrial revolution was about 280 ppm. Now the atmospheric level of CO2 is nearly 400 ppm, a 43% increase in the last 150 years (which corresponds to the time that humans have been burning fossil fuels in significant amounts).
4. Each of the greenhouse gases trap unique wavelengths of energy. Most of the energy being trapped in the atmosphere corresponds exactly to the wavelengths absorbed by CO2.
This is just simply no question that human activity, primarily the release of CO2 through the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation, is causing climate change. Absolutely no question. How much is human activity contributing to climate change? Well that can still be debated. Personally, I would say greater than 50%, probably closer to 80%.
But whatever the percentage, we need to reduce our emissions. I am not one of the extremists who envision doom and gloom by the year 2050 if we don't completely switch to alternative sources immediately. But I do believe we have been exploiting the earth's resources and not incurring the full costs of those resources. Are you familiar with the concept of externalization (or externality)? It is when the cost of a good or service is borne by a party that did not choose to incur that cost. An example would be a $5 tee shirt that was made in Bangladesh (or wherever), you can get that shirt so cheap because the true cost of it has been externalized. Perhaps the working conditions and pay are very poor. Perhaps the dyes they use on the fabric are toxic, but the workers aren't given personal protective equipment. Those costs which should be included in the cost of the tee shirt are instead incurred by the workers in the form of poor health and awful living and working conditions.
Energy has worked the same way. The environmental costs of cheap energy have been externalized to future generations. Our children and their children are going to be paying for our and our parents cheap energy. It is time to make a change.
Let's just hope that whatever new technology comes along to replace fossil fuels isn't treated the same way - as a cheap alternative that we can defer the actual cost to future generations or under-developed nations.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by foreveryoung, posted 08-04-2016 9:47 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 270 of 942 (788859)
08-06-2016 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by foreveryoung
08-05-2016 8:08 PM


Others are doing it for me
High-resolution oxygen isotope records document the timing and magnitude of global warming across the Permian-Triassic (P-Tr) boundary. Oxygen isotope ratios measured on phosphate-bound oxygen in conodont apatite from the Meishan and Shangsi sections (South China) decrease by 2‰ in the latest Permian, translating into low-latitude surface water warming of 8 C. The oxygen isotope shift coincides with the negative shift in carbon isotope ratios of carbonates, suggesting that the addition of isotopically light carbon to the ocean-atmosphere system by Siberian Traps volcanism and related processes resulted in higher greenhouse gas levels and global warming. The major temperature rise started immediately before the main extinction phase, with maximum and harmful temperatures documented in the latest Permian (Meishan: bed 27). The coincidence of climate warming and the main pulse of extinction suggest that global warming was one of the causes of the collapse of the marine and terrestrial ecosystems. In addition, very warm climate conditions in the Early Triassic may have played a major role in the delayed recovery in the aftermath of the Permian-Triassic crisis.
Climate warming in the latest Permian and the Permian—Triassic mass extinction | Geology | GeoScienceWorld

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by foreveryoung, posted 08-05-2016 8:08 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by foreveryoung, posted 08-06-2016 4:39 AM frako has replied

  
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