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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 151 of 1257 (788098)
07-26-2016 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
07-26-2016 4:38 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
I put trust in a massive and honest search for the truth that has uncovered a huge amount of solid evidence over - literally - hundreds of years. You put your trust in assumptions based on sectarian dogma which runs heavily against the known evidence.
Trying to present the two positions as equivalent overlooks these facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 4:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 6:47 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 152 of 1257 (788101)
07-26-2016 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by PaulK
07-26-2016 4:53 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
Those are not facts; just your own personal prejudice. I know the truth and the truth includes the revelation of the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2016 4:53 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2016 8:18 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 154 by jar, posted 07-26-2016 8:27 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 156 by edge, posted 07-26-2016 11:14 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 153 of 1257 (788102)
07-26-2016 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
07-26-2016 6:47 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
If you know the truth, why are you denying it ?
The science of geology exists, Faith. It rejected the young Earth and the Flood because the evidence showed otherwise. This is fact. Denying it only discredits you and your faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 6:47 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 154 of 1257 (788103)
07-26-2016 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
07-26-2016 6:47 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
Faith writes:
Those are not facts; just your own personal prejudice. I know the truth and the truth includes the revelation of the Flood.
Sorry Faith but once again you are simply wrong. No one doubts that you are basing your position on your faith but faith and fact are not the same thing.
Faith writes:
The idea is that at some point a clear contradiction should be found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas. Not because of any failure of the geologists but because the Flood would naturally contradict many of the supposed depositional environments.
We all fully understand that but the reality is that not only has no clear contradiction ever been found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas; every line of research in every field, physics, archeology, paleontology, chemistry, geology, biology, genetics and cultural history has shown that neither of the Biblical Flood stories ever happened.
Those are not a matter of opinion but rather of fact.
When the rocks contradict the book, believe the rocks. When physics contradicts the book, believe physics. When archeology contradicts the book, believe the archeology. When the evidence contradicts the book, believe the evidence.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 6:47 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(4)
Message 155 of 1257 (788108)
07-26-2016 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
07-26-2016 4:38 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
But of course your faith is in OE geology, mine is in the Flood. I know I need better evidence, but I have faith that it's out there.
And of course that's the difference between those who do science and those who do religious apologetics.
Oh, and it is incorrect to refer to scientists having "faith" or "belief." Scientists follow the evidence where it leads.
Add: I see someone used the word "trust" for science upthread. That's a far better term than "faith" or "belief."
Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 4:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 156 of 1257 (788109)
07-26-2016 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
07-26-2016 6:47 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
I know the truth and the truth includes the revelation of the Flood.
Not really. You know what you perceive to be the truth, based on your idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture.
You really have nothing to back it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 6:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:21 AM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 157 of 1257 (788110)
07-26-2016 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Coyote
07-26-2016 10:22 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
There's no need to keep arguing with my beliefs. We will continue to have the occasional exchange of dogmas I'm sure but it's best just to leave it at that. There isn't anything new to say about any of it. It IS a matter of faith that scientists have, sorry, and there is also no contradiction between belief in God and science, sorry. We can keep doing the little dance of contrary dogmas if you like but I don't see the point.
I need a second wind to get back to the topic of this thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Coyote, posted 07-26-2016 10:22 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by PaulK, posted 07-26-2016 11:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 158 of 1257 (788111)
07-26-2016 11:20 AM


the BIG error in Faith's logic (and all other Creationists as well)
Faith writes:
The idea is that at some point a clear contradiction should be found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas. Not because of any failure of the geologists but because the Flood would naturally contradict many of the supposed depositional environments.
The big error in your position (other than it being factually wrong) is that even if an unexplained contradiction was found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas it would not add any support for the concept of some Biblical Flood having really happened.
What is needed is not refutation of the current theory but rather actual support for the existence of some Biblical Flood and unfortunately no one has ever been able to find any evidence such an event ever happened.
Worse, no one has ever even been able to present a Flood model. method, mechanism, process, procedure or thingamabob that might begin to explain any, much less all, of the evidence that is currently explained fully by long periods of time and a continuation of the forces, evolution, chemistry, biology, physics and geology we see in going on today.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 159 of 1257 (788112)
07-26-2016 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by edge
07-26-2016 11:14 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
I know the truth and the truth includes the revelation of the Flood.
Not really. You know what you perceive to be the truth, based on your idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture.
You really have nothing to back it up.
You know what you perceive to be the truth, based on the brainwashing you've received from your education.
My interpretation of scripture is the traditional orthodox interpretation, not at all idiosyncratic. The interpretations that find millions of years in scripture, and believe in evolution, those are idiosyncratic, nothing but capitulations to worldly dogmas.
As I said to coyote we can go on exchanging dogmas. How about we don't?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by edge, posted 07-26-2016 11:14 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by edge, posted 07-26-2016 11:26 AM Faith has replied
 Message 165 by jar, posted 07-26-2016 11:27 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 160 of 1257 (788113)
07-26-2016 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
07-26-2016 4:11 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
The idea is that at some point a clear contradiction should be found between the depositional environment determined by the clues found in the rock strata, and the actual environment that is determined from shorelines and other clues to the six sequences of epeiric seas.
But you haven't found that yet. Your original idea did not pan out, so now we are waiting for you to come up with something else.
Here is my question. Why are you pretending that you can actually find clues about history in the strata, when your actual claim is that doing such a thing is the fatal flaw of the historical sciences? Isn't trying to read the past from such evidence exactly the same nonsense that you accuse geologists of doing?
Not that I share your opinion regarding geology and paleontology, but reading your posts in which you mangle the information in maps, and other posts in which you tell us that there is no evidence of soil or rivers or anything else in those rocks, all while basing your arguments on maps produced by geologists of what the terrain from millions of years ago does tickle my funny bone quite a bit. Surely it is impossible to accomplish your goal in this fashion unless those scientists were complete idiots.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 4:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:23 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:30 AM NoNukes has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 161 of 1257 (788114)
07-26-2016 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
07-25-2016 4:01 PM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
On the map in the textbook the seaway covers the whole area from the mountains on the west to the Great Lakes.
Well, that would be the maximum extent. The point is that it expanded in size from no seaway at all to the extent that you show.
This is a direct application of Walther's Law, which you evidently embraced last year. My guess is that you really didn't understand how extensive marine strata form.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 07-25-2016 4:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:26 AM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 1257 (788115)
07-26-2016 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by NoNukes
07-26-2016 11:22 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
I haven't even got to my original idea. I got sidetracked. I expect to get back to it soon unless the snarky babble gets to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 07-26-2016 11:22 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 1257 (788116)
07-26-2016 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by edge
07-26-2016 11:22 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
I understand how the seaway expanded and contracted. You are right that I don't see the connection with Walther's Law though, so perhaps you would perform a self-sacrificing kindness and explain it to me?
But unless I get a second wind on this issue I'm waiting for a second wind on the original OP topic and may go back to that one instead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by edge, posted 07-26-2016 11:22 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by edge, posted 07-26-2016 11:29 AM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 164 of 1257 (788117)
07-26-2016 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
07-26-2016 11:21 AM


Re: Cretaceous dinosaur fossils in area that was underwater for the whole time period
My interpretation of scripture is the traditional orthodox interpretation, not at all idiosyncratic.
Then you should explain to us why so many Christians, along with numerous other sects, disagree with you.
The interpretations that find millions of years in scripture, and believe in evolution, those are idiosyncratic, nothing but capitulations to worldly dogmas.
Or they are capitulation to reality. You know: God's works.
As I said to coyote we can go on exchanging dogmas. How about we don't?
What do you think my dogma is?
You know what you perceive to be the truth, based on the brainwashing you've received from your education.
I see. So, people who study the earth are brainwashed, but YECs are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 12:36 PM edge has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 165 of 1257 (788118)
07-26-2016 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
07-26-2016 11:21 AM


on Dogma
Faith writes:
My interpretation of scripture is the traditional orthodox interpretation, not at all idiosyncratic. The interpretations that find millions of years in scripture, and believe in evolution, those are idiosyncratic, nothing but capitulations to worldly dogmas.
Only one of the positions is dogma Faith and the other is very different from dogma, it is a willingness to base decisions on actual evidence and to change decisions when the evidence demands.
You really need to learn some basics.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 07-26-2016 11:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
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