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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 61 of 1257 (787965)
07-24-2016 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
07-24-2016 8:44 AM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
The first paragraph may be dealt with by pointing out that the unsubstantiated opinions of someone who regularly says things that really are ridiculous are hardly worth considering.
quote:
THOSE ARE ROCKS. Each rock slab covers the territory in which you believe its fossil contents once lived. Those fossilized creatures would have had no place to go when that "landscape" eventually disappeared.
The creatures found as fossils would generally be dead before they were buried - and it would be a long time after that when the material around them became rock. Long dead animals have no need of anywhere to live.
Their descendants - if they had any - would, of course be living on the surface as it was in their time. Really, do you think that modern Egyptians live on the same surface of the Nile flood plain as their ancient ancestors did thousands of years ago ? Or do they live in the modern surface on top of all the sediment deposited by the regular flooding ?
quote:
Geology has shot itself in the foot with this. Consider the Chinle Formation of the Grand Staircase in Utahl, where there are found lots of fossils, many of them of dinosaurs. It extends over a huge area of the western US...
Your assessment, as ever, is hopelessly wrong. As the article says, the Chinle formation (which is a formation, not a single stratum) incorporates an environment consisting of lakes, river plains and wetlands.
Interestingly you've pointed me to a refutation of another of your claims, The Wingate Sandstone - one of the formations directly above the Chinle is dated from the late Triassic into the Early Jurassic. So much for the idea that deposition stops at the boundaries between geological periods.
The Wikipedia article on the Wingate Sandstone (linked from the Chinle formation article so you have no excuse for not reading it) says:
Wingate layers are typically pale orange to red in color, the remnants of wind-born sand dunes
That's desert, not deep ocean.
The other, the Moenave formation is Jurassic, and there was uplift and erosion between the two. Need I point out that uplifting land is hardly likely to put it at the bottom of a deep ocean ?
And the Moenave formation was deposited in the same range of environments as the Chinle, so obviously the animals that liked those environments could likely stay there.
So, where exactly is this "deep ocean" ?
(Of course the whole point would be silly anywhere. Faced with environmental change animals will move, adapt or die. This is not a problem.)
quote:
It was the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods I described on the other thread, both periods known for their dinosaur fossils on the west side of the Rockies, but Oops, during those time periods there is still nothing but "deep ocean" over there
If that is true then there should be many dinosaur fossils found in deep ocean deposits. Which I have no reason to believe. Given that you were hopelessly wrong about the Chinle formation - and you could easily gave found out by reading articles linked from the one you quoted I am not about to trust your unsupported word on this. Evidence please.
quote:
Look, what we actually have is the rock strata and that's ALL we have and we have LOTS of it, and there is absolutely nothing about it that suggests anything whatever occurred between the layers of rock. One sediment got laid down and not too long afterward another, up the entire stack. The former environments imputed to those rocks simply never existed
We've had enough evidence at this point to say that that is clearly false. If you won't see it, then too bad for you.
quote:
Nothing could have lived in the time periods covered by all that water, but nothing DID live
Except for the sea creatures found as fossils in the strata which genuinely were deposited on the seabed.
quote:
Every living thing was drowned and the proof of it is their fossilized remains in the strata.
Which is a genuinely ridiculous claim as shown in the original thread.
Really why should we reject solid scientific conclusions which you CALL ridiculous when your objections really are ridiculous ?
Edited by PaulK, : Fixed a couple of "corrections"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 8:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 2:53 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 62 of 1257 (787975)
07-24-2016 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Stile
07-24-2016 11:03 AM


Re: In the long, long ago
Another version of the Just-So imaginary landscape. I wonder if anyone will ever get around to noticing that when the "landscape" reverts to a new layer of sediment that's going to become a flat rock in a stack of flat rocks, neatly smack up against the rocks above and below, that all living things imagined to have populated that imaginary landscape would be dead.? That's the only thing that could come of such a landscape that builds up on a rock of the strata and then erodes down and disappears into the next rock of the strata. The reality of the actual situation just doesn't get across, does it?
And has anyone commented on the problem of the seas Geology says occurred in the same time periods as the dinosaurs?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Stile, posted 07-24-2016 11:03 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 63 of 1257 (787977)
07-24-2016 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by PaulK
07-24-2016 1:48 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
The deep ocean and the transgressing-regressing epeiric seas are detailed in the sixth edition of the textbook Historical Geology by two respected professors of Geology named Wicander and Monroe. They seem to have failed to notice that their seas would be a problem for their dinosaurs in the same time periods.
Oh Paul, I don't expect you to EVER accept anything I say; fear not, your delusions are quite safe.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2016 1:48 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2016 3:25 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 64 of 1257 (787979)
07-24-2016 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Faith
07-24-2016 2:47 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
Faith writes:
... all living things imagined to have populated that imaginary landscape would be dead....The reality of the actual situation just doesn't get across, does it?
The reality includes animal tracks, burrows, etc. How do you suppose they got into those "imaginary" landscapes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 2:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:15 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 65 of 1257 (787981)
07-24-2016 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
07-24-2016 3:11 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
The reality includes animal tracks, burrows, etc. How do you suppose they got into those "imaginary" landscapes?
Most likely creatures that survived the first phases of the Flood leaving evidence of their presence in the latest deposit of sediment before being overtaken by the next. You do notice that the sediments were WET, right?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:29 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 66 of 1257 (787984)
07-24-2016 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
07-24-2016 2:53 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
quote:
The deep ocean and the transgressing-regressing epeiric seas are detailed in the sixth edition of the textbook Historical Geology by two respected professors of Geology named Wicander and Monroe
Since you provide absolutely no information to check other than the implication that it directly followed the deposition of the Chinle formation - which turned out to be false - I rather doubt this. Especially coming from someone with a habit of misrepresenting even friendly sources.
quote:
Oh Paul, I don't expect you to EVER accept anything I say; fear not, your delusions are quite safe.
If you don't like people noticing you many errors the answer is to take more care to get things right - a lot more. Being nasty about it just encourages retaliation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 2:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:30 PM PaulK has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 67 of 1257 (787985)
07-24-2016 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:15 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
Faith writes:
You do notice that the sediments were WET, right?
No. They're not all wet. Try googling "fossil tracks in aeolian deposits".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:32 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 68 of 1257 (787987)
07-24-2016 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by PaulK
07-24-2016 3:25 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
the implication that it directly followed the deposition of the Chinle formation
What??? Do you know how to read? Where did I say anything about "directly following the deposition of the Chinle formation?" All I said was that the Chinle Formation has a lot of dinosaur fossils, it's a Triassic deposit, and it covers a lot of territory west of the Rockies, which according to the textbook mentioned was under deep ocean during the Mesozoic time periods.
I understand there is a later edition of that textbook online if you want to see if it contains the same information.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2016 3:25 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2016 3:45 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 69 of 1257 (787988)
07-24-2016 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
07-24-2016 3:29 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
PRESERVED tracks in aeolian deposits. OK. Dry sand fills in tracks in dry sand and they get preserved. Wow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:29 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:33 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 70 of 1257 (787989)
07-24-2016 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:32 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
Faith writes:
PRESERVED tracks in aeolian deposits. OK. Dry sand fills in tracks in dry sand and they get preserved.
So what are they doing down there mixed in with all of the so-called "Flood" layers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:37 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 71 of 1257 (787990)
07-24-2016 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
07-24-2016 3:33 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
The supposed aeolian deposits weren't. That's all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 07-24-2016 3:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 72 of 1257 (787991)
07-24-2016 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
07-24-2016 8:44 AM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Those fossilized creatures would have had no place to go when that "landscape" eventually disappeared.
This is hilarious. The fossilized creatures were dead. And of course we are talking about creatures that are currently extinct, so the fact that they had no place to go when their landscape disappeared would not be a problem.
But landscapes are on top of layers. If you see an exposed layer, that means that the landscape has been removed by some process such as erosion or being buried under lava. Still not a problem either way.
Dinosaurs are supposed to have roamed all over that territory during this time period with its dinosaur-friendly imaginary landscape
Very few of those dinosaurs ever became fossils.
Beyond that, given the descriptions of how strata are formed, it is possible that their could always have been a top layer of sediment and soil during the time when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. The key is that strata form bottom up and not top down. The rock can form regardless of the whether layers above are rock or landscape.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 8:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:45 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 73 of 1257 (787992)
07-24-2016 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by NoNukes
07-24-2016 3:38 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Landscapes occur on top of exposed layers, but never occurred on any layer that is still in the stack. And I don't see what is so hilarious except your determination to garble the point: it is the creatures fossilized in the rock that are supposed to have been alive in the supposed landscape of the supposed time period, in which as I'm pointing out, nothing could have remained alive given the actual situation that you are all ignoring. But anything to obfuscate, right? There is no way any dinosaurs escaped, but that isn't going to stop you all from making up the usual plausible Just-So rationalizations.
The fact of the strata kills the whole claim of the landscapes. But the epeiric seas do an even better job of that.
I've got to get out of here. It's become nothing but mean-spirited bickering. I've made my case, it's a good case to anyone willing to understand it fairly, and that's the end of it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by NoNukes, posted 07-24-2016 3:38 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by NoNukes, posted 07-24-2016 4:18 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 74 of 1257 (787993)
07-24-2016 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:30 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
quote:
What??? Do you know how to read? Where did I say anything about "directly following the deposition of the Chinle formation?" All I said was that the Chinle Formation has a lot of dinosaur fossils, it's a Triassic deposit, and it covers a lot of territory west of the Rockies, which according to the textbook mentioned was under deep ocean during the Mesozoic time periods.
In other words you were being incredibly vague about when this supposed "deep ocean" was present. Why even mention the Chinle formation if this supposed "deep ocean" was in the distant future - millions of years later ? What possible relevance could that have to the dinosaurs living at the time when the Chinle formation was being deposited ?
Of course the whole argument has other serious flaws in that it fails to state any real problem. Even if the distant descendants of the dinosaurs list hat had lived in the Chinle formation were wiped out because they had nowhere to go that would not, in itself be a problem. How could it be ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:51 PM PaulK has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 1257 (787994)
07-24-2016 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
07-24-2016 3:37 PM


Re: In the long, long ago
Faith writes:
The supposed aeolian deposits weren't. That's all.
You just admitted they were:
quote:
Dry sand fills in tracks in dry sand and they get preserved. Message 69
And those aeolian deposits are sandwiched between layers that you claim were deposited by the same flood. How do you explain a flood layer with and aeolian landscape on top of it and another flood layer on top of that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 07-24-2016 3:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
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