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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 136 of 1482 (783061)
05-02-2016 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by NoNukes
05-02-2016 3:57 PM


Re: Chronology?
Hi NoNukes
NoNukes writes:
So there is an inconsistency, and I find that indeed it does matter. Other theories do not require that Seth died prior to the day that the heavens and earth were created and thus do not suffer the problems yours suffers.
Where does what I am saying require that a Seth if he was born to the man that was formed from the dust of the ground die before the day the heavens and the earth were created?
Message 131
icant writes:
if the man formed from the dust of the ground had a son named Seth he would have died in the day the heavens and the earth was created.
Message 127
ICANT writes:
But regardless of how it got there if the man formed from the dust of the ground had a son named Seth he would have perished in the day God created the heavens and the earth.
Message 117
ICANT writes:
If you are claiming the Seth in Genesis 4:26 existed at the same time his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, nephew Lamech of Genesis 4:23 did he would have died in the water found covering the earth in Genesis 1:2.
ICANT writes:
No. I don't believe any man other than the one created in the image of God in Genesis 1:27 had a son named Seth as he is listed in the generations of the man created in the image of God in Genesis 5:1 and the following verses.
Message 104
ICANT writes:
It would not make any difference if they did belong there and they did have a son they named Seth. He would not have existed at Genesis 1:2 as he would have been part of the day God created the heavens and the earth.
Message 102
ICANT writes:
The Bible text requires all the events which is the history of the day God created the heavens and the earth to take place prior to Genesis 1:2.
ICANT writes:
But if he did the Seth of Genesis 4:26 did not exist past day one in Genesis 1:5.
There is all 5 messages and what I said about the Seth of Genesis 4:26. Point out in the message where I said the Seth of Genesis 4:26 would have to die before the heavens and the earth were created.
NoNukes writes:
But I have issues with what you stated because it ignores some important consequences.
Why don't you list all those important consequences so we can discuss them instead of just saying you disagree with my conclusions.
NoNukes writes:
I'm going to pursue this Gap Creation thing a bit more offline. Maybe I'll come up with some ideas to exchange with you later.
Just remember I do not believe in a gap. I believe in a 1 light period creation event in which the heavens and the earth were created and their history as given in Genesis 2:4-4:24 took place. And then 5 24 hour days in which 2 creation events took place, Genesis 1:21 and Genesis 1:27.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by NoNukes, posted 05-02-2016 3:57 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 3:23 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 137 of 1482 (783062)
05-02-2016 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by ICANT
05-02-2016 3:21 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
This is to kbertsche maybe more than to ICANT
ICANT, I didn't answer this post of yours because I have a lot of trouble understanding it. I can't make sense out of your remarks about the man created from the dust, or the way you put things together in the post you wrote to NoNukes above.
The best I could possibly do with all these different views of the first part of Genesis is MAYBE consider that there is a gap between verses 1 and 2, which you say you don't believe, and that's because I have had questions myself about when Lucifer rebelled against God and how that event fits into the Creation Week.
I can't judge the arguments about the Hebrew, whether verse 2 is describing the earliest state of the Earth as formless and void, as it is normally read by YECs and most theologians I'm familiar with; or if it's saying the Earth BECAME formless and void, as I've understood Gap Theory maintains, the idea being that something violent happened to put the Earth in that condition, which some attribute to the fall of Lucifer and his angels.
Otherwise I read Genesis straight through without needing to make any adjustments for different meanings than the straightforward narrative I'm familiar with. Genesis 1 outlines the steps of Creation; Genesis 1 focuses in on the creation of Adam...
But there are some interesting questions about that possible gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, which are questions about what happened when Lucifer fell. I don't see any justification in such a gap for evolutionary theory myself, and there's no particular amount of time it would add anyway, just whatever amount of time is necessary to allow for the events surrounding Lucifer's fall. I don't know if that's hundreds of years or what, but more than that shouldn't be needed.
And again I don't see any justification for evolution in the addition of whatever amount of time might be involved. Nothing has been created yet but the "heavens and the earth." Not the light or the plants or animals or heavenly objects or humanity, nothing. The whole drama of Lucifer's fall could be going on in the "heavens" rather than on earth.
So I could see that it's after that drama runs its course that the Creation countdown of the seven evenings and mornings begins with the creation of light.
There are no plants or animals before that, so no justification for any idea of a lengthy evolution or of death to the animals. Plants of course die, but they aren't life in the sense animals are. This is more related to kbertsche's arguments than yours I'm afraid.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by ICANT, posted 05-02-2016 3:21 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 12:53 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 144 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 4:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 138 of 1482 (783063)
05-03-2016 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by kbertsche
05-02-2016 11:48 AM


Re: Chronology?
Hi kbertsche
kbertsche writes:
I agree with your conclusion. But the first word of the text ("in beginning") is awkward: it doesn't have a definite article.
When the definite article follows the Beit prefix it is absorbed into the Beit.
kbertsche writes:
This is what leads Rashi and others to translate it as "in the beginning of the creation of God",
Rashi believed the water came first then the solid part of the earth formed in the ball of water. Therefore he could not believe what the text says, as the earth could not exist prior to the water.
kbertsche writes:
But this requires changing the vowels on "created"
Biblical Hebrew contains 22 letters, all of which are consonants.
There are no vowels at all. Alef, Waw, yod and He were used as consonantal vowels.
If you will double click on my avatar you will be looking at Genesis 1:1 as I studied it and as it would have been written originally.
kbertsche writes:
Thanks for the information! I didn't realize that the roots of the Gap Theory went back so far.
Most people do not know because they could care less about facts and just takes what someone else tells them as fact. So since Chalmers wrote about the gap theory a few years before Darwin wrote 'Origin of the Species'. Yet it is seized upon as the reason for the gap theory being invented.
Most people know what they believe and it does not matter what the facts are and they don't want to be bothered with the facts, as they don't usually support their worldview.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by kbertsche, posted 05-02-2016 11:48 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 1:08 AM ICANT has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 1482 (783065)
05-03-2016 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by kbertsche
05-02-2016 8:49 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
If you want to investigate these issues further, I suggest looking at the writings of D.G. Barnhouse, M.R.DeHann, Arno Gaebelein, H.A. Ironside, J. Vernon McGee, C.I. Scofield, or C.H. Spurgeon, all of whom held to the Gap Theory.
Faith has indicated that she wants direct explanations and perhaps a reference to writings is not what she is after. I notice that she has instead been looking at videos.
The best written outline I can find so far is the description here:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9...
I note that most of the descriptions I have seen on the net are pretty dismissive of either Gap theology or YEC theology depending on the perspective of the writer. But the description at the link above at least allows a comparison without too much venom spewed by the two sides. On the other hand, I cannot read the article without coming away with an impression of the how weakly supported Gap Creationism on on the thin linguistic skin on which Gap believers rest their conclusions. Unfortunately the site does not provide any of the rebuttals that Gap theologists might make. I suspect that such arguments do exist.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by kbertsche, posted 05-02-2016 8:49 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 1482 (783066)
05-03-2016 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Faith
05-02-2016 11:59 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
Otherwise I read Genesis straight through without needing to make any adjustments for different meanings than the straightforward narrative I'm familiar with. Genesis 1 outlines the steps of Creation; Genesis 1 focuses in on the creation of Adam...
Unfortunately, reading Genesis in english is not of any help. The Gap theory depends on the translations of words that might well map to english words without a distinction. I think it is impossible to being on the journey to become a Gap theology proponent with distinguishing between God making something, and God creating something. The problem however is that the distinctions that Gap theorists make are contradicted readily in Biblical text, and sometimes the words for made or used for things Gap theorists insist were created and vice versa. Maybe ICANT can recommend an English translation that faithfully reflects his view.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 11:59 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 1:15 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 11:24 AM NoNukes has replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 141 of 1482 (783067)
05-03-2016 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by ICANT
05-03-2016 12:16 AM


Re: Chronology?
ICANT writes:
When the definite article follows the Beit prefix it is absorbed into the Beit.
Yes, but the vowels will be different. If there is no definite article, the vowel under the Beit is short (shewa'). If there is a definite article, the article is assimilated into the Beit and the vowel which would have been under the article (patah or qamets) goes under the Beit. The first word of the text has a short vowel (shewa') under the Beit, so there is no assimilated article in the word. (http://hebrew4christians.com/...nseparable_prepositions.html)
We agree that the vowels were originally not written. But they were spoken, even though they were not written. The Masoretes invented the written vowels in order to preserve the correct pronunciation. Is it possible that the Masoretes got the vowels wrong? Yes. But is it likely that they got them wrong on the very first verse of the sacred text? I doubt it. The first verse is the most likely to have its pronunciation remembered and passed down correctly.
ICANT writes:
Most people do not know because they could care less about facts and just takes what someone else tells them as fact. So since Chalmers wrote about the gap theory a few years before Darwin wrote 'Origin of the Species'. Yet it is seized upon as the reason for the gap theory being invented.
Yes, the Gap Theory certainly predates the Theory of Evolution. Chalmers may have been motivated in part by Lyell, but not by Darwin or evolution. But as you have explained, the roots of the Gap Theory go back even further, long before the rise of modern science.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 12:16 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 2:39 AM kbertsche has replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


(1)
Message 142 of 1482 (783069)
05-03-2016 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by NoNukes
05-03-2016 12:53 AM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
NoNukes writes:
Unfortunately, reading Genesis in english is not of any help. The Gap theory depends on the translations of words that might well map to english words without a distinction. I think it is impossible to being on the journey to become a Gap theology proponent with distinguishing between God making something, and God creating something. The problem however is that the distinctions that Gap theorists make are contradicted readily in Biblical text, and sometimes the words for made or used for things Gap theorists insist were created and vice versa. Maybe ICANT can recommend an English translation that faithfully reflects his view.
I recommend Word Biblical Commentary on Gen 1:1-2. It explains the grammatical issues pretty thoroughly and goes through all of the major options in a fairly objective way, giving the strengths and weaknesses of each view.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 12:53 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 10:48 AM kbertsche has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 143 of 1482 (783075)
05-03-2016 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by kbertsche
05-03-2016 1:08 AM


Re: Chronology?
Hi kbertsche
kbertsche writes:
We agree that the vowels were originally not written. But they were spoken, even though they were not written.
What part of the "Biblical Hebrew contains 22 letters, all of which are consonants", do you not understand.
If all letters are consonants then no letters are vowels.
There was no Masoretes marking until 1100 AD.
In Biblical Hebrew which looks like my avatar the Alef, yod, waw, and He, were used as we use vowels.
kbertsche writes:
The Masoretes invented the written vowels in order to preserve the correct pronunciation.
I thought they did it to revive a dead language and be able to speak it. They did not finish their work until around 1100 AD which was started around 700 AD and there is no copies of any text they worked on from the time they started as they destroyed all of them.
Moses would not be able to read the modern Masorete text but he could read my avatar.
Today, many people believe that the Masoretic Text represents the original Hebrew, and that the Septuagint is less trustworthy because it is just a translation. In fact, the Dead Sea Scrolls testify that the Septuagint is actually more faithful to the original Hebrew than the Masoretic Text is.
Get over it, Biblical Hebrew had no vowels period other than consonants.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 1:08 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 9:17 AM ICANT has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 1482 (783076)
05-03-2016 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Faith
05-02-2016 11:59 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
I don't know if that's hundreds of years or what, but more than that shouldn't be needed.
How could anyone make this kind of judgment? I am not trying to justify evolutionary time periods with my question, but who could know the duration of events that are not even described in a time sense? Maybe it was 4000 years for example, or 12,000.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Faith, posted 05-02-2016 11:59 PM Faith has not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2131 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 145 of 1482 (783087)
05-03-2016 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by ICANT
05-03-2016 2:39 AM


Re: Chronology?
ICANT writes:
Biblical Hebrew contains 22 letters, all of which are consonants", do you not understand.
If all letters are consonants then no letters are vowels.
Agreed. The LETTERS were (and are) all consonants. There were and are no vowel LETTERS.
But do you think the ancient Hebrews had no vowel SOUNDS? Do you think it is possible to speak the consonants in your avatar without introducing vowel sounds? No.
While there were no vowel LETTERS, there were still vowel SOUNDS. This is what the Masoretes tried to preserve.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein
I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 2:39 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 11:07 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 1482 (783090)
05-03-2016 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by kbertsche
05-03-2016 1:15 AM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
I recommend Word Biblical Commentary on Gen 1:1-2. It explains the grammatical issues pretty thoroughly and goes through all of the major options in a fairly objective way, giving the strengths and weaknesses of each view.
Thanks. Any recommendation fro some free information?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 1:15 AM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 12:34 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 147 of 1482 (783091)
05-03-2016 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by kbertsche
05-03-2016 9:17 AM


Re: Chronology?
Hi kbertsche
kbertsche writes:
Agreed. The LETTERS were (and are) all consonants. There were and are no vowel LETTERS.
Good we got that out of the way.
Now what do you do with the consonants that were used as we use vowels today?
The Alef א, the Yod י, the Waw ו, and the He ה were used as we use vowels today.
kbertsche writes:
Do you think it is possible to speak the consonants in your avatar without introducing vowel sounds? No.
Sure it can, when you use the language as written.
(ABE)The Torah had to be read every year.
kbertsche writes:
While there were no vowel LETTERS, there were still vowel SOUNDS. This is what the Masoretes tried to preserve.
The Masoretes added the vowel to the Hebrew text so they could control what the text said, and to revive a dead language.
If we are studying the written word there is no need to be able to speak what is written down.
As I said Moses could read what is in my avatar but he could not read any of the Hebrew text that is written with any other form of letters.
So if you could go back in time and hand Moses a copy of the Masorete text he would not be able to read one word of it.
So what did the Masoretes preserve?
Many of the DDS were written in the Hebrew like in my avatar and others in the square letters of modern Hebrew. Here is a quote from one website concerning the DDS.
quote:
Scholars commonly speak of "Qumran Hebrew" as a literary Hebrew dialect. Some Scrolls from the Qumran caves have certain distinctive features, such as the use of "plene" spelling (using the letters י ,י ,ה ,א to indicate vowels), which scholars have identified as "Qumran Scribal Practice." The documents from the refuge caves of the Judean Desert are written in a less formal Hebrew.
The Dead Sea Scrolls - Languages and Scripts
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : To insert

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by kbertsche, posted 05-03-2016 9:17 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 148 of 1482 (783092)
05-03-2016 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by NoNukes
05-03-2016 12:53 AM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
Hi NoNukes
NoNukes writes:
Unfortunately, reading Genesis in english is not of any help.
Sure it is if you park your assumptions you have reached before you examine the text.
Return to that open mind you mentioned and read Genesis 1:1, 2:4, 1:5, Isaiah 45:18, Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23-26.
Apply Occam's Razor and then tell me what the simplest meaning of each verse is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 12:53 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by NoNukes, posted 05-03-2016 11:58 AM ICANT has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 149 of 1482 (783093)
05-03-2016 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by kbertsche
05-02-2016 8:49 PM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
I read the Wikipedia article on gap theory but I have a question I'm hoping you can answer easily, since it seems to be hard to find the answer online without more reading than my eyes can tolerate, and I don't want to hang up this thread:
I just want to know what believers in Gap Theory think occurred during the gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by kbertsche, posted 05-02-2016 8:49 PM kbertsche has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 1482 (783094)
05-03-2016 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by ICANT
05-03-2016 11:24 AM


Re: Implications of Gap Theory
NoNukes writes:
Unfortunately, reading Genesis in english is not of any help.
ICANT writes:
Return to that open mind you mentioned and read Genesis 1:1, 2:4, 1:5, Isaiah 45:18, Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23-26.
An open mind does not mean buying everything that is being offered. Why stop reading Jeremiah at 4:26 and why start only at 4:23? Is that because the additional context reveals Jeremiah to be speaking of the future and not the past? Is it because the only real strength of the argument is the similarity in phrasing between Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23? Surely Jeremiah was familiar with Genesis 1:2 when he spoke.
As I indicated I would do, I have done some offline reading regarding the position of Gap theologists and also the rebuttals made against those positions. I have also attempted to discuss interpretations of Jeremiah 4:23-26 with you, but my questions related to possible weaknesses of your argument have so far gone unanswered. For example most people reading those verses would understand Jeremiah to be talking about the future. In fact, it is that conversation has convinced me to look elsewhere.
Beyond that, is it not true that Gap theorist rely on Hebrew and not English with some of those verses you cited? For example, "God created the earth not in vain" does not really support Gap theology. Isn't it the Hebrew that leads you to conclude that the verse is a rebuttal to the belief that the earth was created without form? I might ask similar questions about the denial of other verses in Genesis being creation events. Does not that argument rely mostly on an interpretation of Hebrew? Don't you claim that errors in the KJV translation mislead people away the truth. No, it does seem necessary to do more than simply read English with an open mind.
I will continue to look because I want to understand Gap theology. But so far it appears that simply having an open mind does not yield acceptance of your position. Got anything else?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 05-03-2016 11:24 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by jar, posted 05-03-2016 12:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 154 by ICANT, posted 05-04-2016 12:51 AM NoNukes has replied

  
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