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Author | Topic: Yes, The Real The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Well I tried asking questions and that didn't get me anywhere. Then I remembered that if you want to find the right answer on the internet, you just proclaim the wrong one and people will be sure to correct you.
It worked, cause now I'm getting responses. I honestly don't know what you mean by "buying an election", and I don't understand how allowing people to spend their money how they want "perverts the democratic process". Wealthy people have always been in control of it, so how is this a perversion? I'm not being a dick, I'm genuinely curious what you are talking about. But I get that you can't be bothered to explain yourself, maybe that's cause you're too busy arguing the person and not the position
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In this presidential campaign, on a national scale, the impact of an individual's own wealth, or even the wealth of a number of wealthy contributors, does not have the direct impact it does on smaller regional/local races, because there are so may wealthy contributors on every side. So what is Percy going on about Trump buying the election? According to your link, Jeb Bush spent the most money and that didn't help him.
Money is necessary to print yard signs, leaflets, media advertising in print, TV/radio, internet and social media. The more one has to spend the more they can buy. In local contests one wealthy individual can overwhelm other candidates by spending far greater than the opponents. Advertising works in capturing the attention of the public and in influencing public opinion. In overwhelming your opponents by saturating the Ad market with your product (you), you are said to be "buying" your election. It makes more sense at a local level. But are we really to look at the voting public as a bunch of androids that pick the guy that threw the most money at promoting himself? God help us if that's what politics is...
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Percy Member Posts: 22506 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
This isn't really a reply to your post, it's just that since you've attempted to answer the question I think I should try to chime in with my own view, so here goes.
Focusing just on legal and above board approaches, elections can only be effectively contested by those with sufficient money for advertising, events and organization. Money doesn't guarantee electoral success, but lack of money often assures defeat. Television advertising, which is very expensive, often plays a significant role in electoral success at the state and federal level. Local organizations can also be very influential, and when volunteers are lacking then money can help a great deal in creating a critical mass of local support. This is why money is so important. Apparently just putting ads on the air and feet on the ground can generate a great deal of support that would otherwise never happen. Political campaigns have become too much a battle of ads and doorbells, and since money is required to make this all possible it becomes more a battle of money than of ideas. We need to change that. --Percy
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
(this computer keeps "closing" my text. I've had this problem for the last week. Lost my original post. My post will have to be heavy on my quotes, and less on my own words - which keep getting lost. Sorry.)
I was attempting to show that Lyndon Larouche was blacked out in the 2004 Democratic Primary coverage(as well as in 2000 when he beat Bill Bradley for the race for 2nd in Arkansas but was totally ignored by the media in name, vote totals, as well as complete absence of standard - in 2000 - 2nd place small pic when the "winner" got a large center screen pic at the moment of the network/AP call) even though his $8.4 million was 6th highest in individual fundraising amounts. The media commonly placed #7 as #6, #8 as #7, etc. while the 9/11 Truther Larouche was completely air brushed out of the medias (otherwise!) endlessly obsessive fundraising coverage.
quote: The former leftist (who became a total neo-con) Sol Stern had an interesting article in the right-wing City Journal of New York a few years back.
quote: He is very very sorry. I don't care (about his about face) really. I care about the more important funding issues though. Dollars and Sense and Power and Blackouts and Stuff.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
So what is Percy going on about Trump buying the election? I cannot answer for Percy. He has his reasons. Ask him.
According to your link, Jeb Bush spent the most money and that didn't help him. Money can only keep you in the game if enough people buy what you're selling. Without it, though, you cannot even compete. In Jeb's case, for all the money he spent, he came across as a wimp-assed psudo-conservative the Republican right did not like.
...are we really to look at the voting public as a bunch of androids that pick the guy that threw the most money at promoting himself? You already cited Jeb Bush, so not totally. But keep in mind that advertising does work in this society else Madison Avenue would not exist. On a national presidential level there is plenty of $$$ to go around. What are required are a candidate with some appeal to the party faithful and the effective use of that money to buy attention. Trump has appeal to the lowest dregs of the Republican right, which turns out to be quite a larger share of the Republican base than anyone expected, while his bombast, posturing and inflammatory rhetoric have generated the attention of the national news media as a surrogate for paid Ads.
God help us if that's what politics is... Well, that's what politics is so... Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Trump has appeal to the lowest dregs of the Republican right, which turns out to be quite a larger share of the Republican base than anyone expected, while his bombast, posturing and inflammatory rhetoric have generated the attention of the national news media as a surrogate for paid Ads. You nailed it. I was flabbergasted (always wanted to use that word) when all the available TV media started broadcasting his rallies as news. What a deal for him. Early on, I guess he was getting as much free air time as the other GOPs combined. These days Ferret-Face gets quite a bit of free coverage also. I am disappointed that NPR and the PBS Newshour spend as much time on what the candidates said today as they do.
So what is Percy going on about Trump buying the election?
I cannot answer for Percy. He has his reasons. Ask him. I don't know if Trump is trying to buy the election, but there are entities trying to buy the 2016 elections. In some cases in past elections, the results have been influenced by how much money was spent on a cause or candidate. Sometimes, we know who the wealthy individuals are that are supplying monetary support, but there are all these political action committees that have secret donors; could be corporations, foreign countries, people with scary agendas and the citizens and voters of the U.S. don't know who they are. These committees often use the tactic of running negative ads that contain outright lies about causes or candidates they oppose. There do not seem to be any limits what so ever on how much money they collect or spend and what they spend it on. There a lot of state elections that have candidates who are for sale and who are hoping to convince someone with money to buy the election for them. Carly Fiorina tried to buy her way into the U.S. Senate 2010, but it didn't work for her.
God help us if that's what politics is... Well, that's what politics is so...
It seems to be building to a crescendo this year, but Faith has already told us we're doomed, so.....What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Trump has appeal to the lowest dregs of the Republican right, which turns out to be quite a larger share of the Republican base than anyone expected, while his bombast, posturing and inflammatory rhetoric have generated the attention of the national news media as a surrogate for paid Ads. Yes but what are the alternatives? Cruz is a Bush operative (that would make a fourth term for the Bushes) and for the democrats you have Clinton who is totally fake. Sanders is a ringer for Clinton. You notice how even though he keeps winning he is happy for Clinton to take all of his delegates.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
... for the democrats you have Clinton who is totally fake. Trump staff alleges the real fake in this campaign has been The Donald himself, that he's really not the bigoted buffoon he purposefully has portrayed to the public. He's been selling snake oil to the Republican dupes all this time and now they are going to change his persona to better fit a general election campaign.
source Really? Bullshit! If he's that much of a weasel then he doesn't belong anywhere near the Oval Office.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Yes but what are the alternatives? Cruz is a Bush operative (that would make a fourth term for the Bushes) and for the democrats you have Clinton who is totally fake. Sanders is a ringer for Clinton. You notice how even though he keeps winning he is happy for Clinton to take all of his delegates. Wow, I can't believe I didn't see it all before this.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Trump staff alleges the real fake in this campaign has been The Donald himself, that he's really not the bigoted buffoon he purposefully has portrayed to the public. He's been selling snake oil to the Republican dupes all this time and now they are going to change his persona to better fit a general election campaign. I saw David Brooks comment on this on PBS Newshour. He said that we all know Trump, he has been this guy since we first heard of him. His ignorance of how the Presidency works and how the government and military function was not an act, he really does not know about these things. So while he may have been pretending to be a typical Republican and embracing their fucked up philosophy, he can't change the ignorant boob that we all know he is.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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AZPaul3 writes:
But keep in mind that advertising does work in this society else Madison Avenue would not exist. And here is the devastating indictment of homo sapiens. Advertising works. Maybe all political advertising should be prohibited. Candidates would post position papers on some electionYYYY.gov page for every one to read.But this would then be a literacy test all over again.... - xongsmith, 5.7d
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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The Mexican government has announced they have agreed to Donald Trump's proposal that they pay for a wall along the U.S.-Mexican border.
Construction will begin in Oregon.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
I am calling you out for this post because it is either the result of woeful ignorance or deliberate lies. It is so transparently false rebutting is a simple matter of common sense.
Big_Al35 writes: Cruz is a Bush operative (that would make a fourth term for the Bushes) Last I looked Jeb Bush ran for the nomination. Are you actually suggesting they would support Cruz over their own? Right now, I figure they are scheming on a way to deny either Trump or Cruz the nomination as befits their sense of entitlement.
and for the democrats you have Clinton who is totally fake. Perhaps the only part of your post grounded in an element of truth. After all, she affects a Southern accent in the traitor states just as little Bush pretended to be a bumpkin before his bumpkin audience, I assure you they speak differently to their rich donors and masters.
Sanders is a ringer for Clinton. How uninformed can one be? You must get all your information from Fox News. Sanders supports single-payer health care, Clinton, wallowing in all those donations from big pharma and other parasites involved in the process, does not. Sanders supports a $15 minimum wage, Clinton reluctantly supports $12, a promise likely unkept after the Walton family reminds her of who is the master and who is the slave. Sanders supports free college tuition, Clinton does not. Sanders generally does not support wars of choice, Clinton wants ground troops in Lybia (to cover her mistakes), Syria (to make more), Afghanistan, and God knows where else until she suddenly discovers she ran out of soldiers. Which of course will result in a recession, and another opportunity to screw over the 99% in favor of the 1%. After all she lobbied on support of overthrowing the elected government of Honduras in favor of turning that nation into 'the murder capital of the world.' And that just scratches the surface.
You notice how even though he keeps winning he is happy for Clinton to take all of his delegates. Unbelievable - how is it even possible to come to that conclusion?? I would advise you to contact a reputable academic librarian immediately to cure you of either abject ignorance or willful dishonesty. Study the difference between shit and shineola under their tutelage and get back to us after a year or so when you have learned, lest you embarrass yourself any further in this forum.Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
BA writes: You notice how even though he keeps winning he is happy for Clinton to take all of his delegates. Unbelievable - how is it even possible to come to that conclusion?? Alternative media. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Big_Al35 Member (Idle past 830 days) Posts: 389 Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes: Wow, I can't believe I didn't see it all before this. Ok I get it, I get it. You guys have been watching the same alternative media that I have but you want to conceal this fact by constantly claiming otherwise and repeatedly asking me what my sources are.
anglagard writes: How uninformed can one be? You must get all your information from Fox News. Sanders supports single-payer health care, Clinton, wallowing in all those donations from big pharma and other parasites involved in the process, does not. Sanders supports a $15 minimum wage, Clinton reluctantly supports $12, a promise likely unkept after the Walton family reminds her of who is the master and who is the slave. Sanders supports free college tuition, Clinton does not. Wow, you really have got bogged down in detail, haven't you. Are you trying to look intelligent by focusing on policy? Big mistake. Sanders will soon be 75 years old. By the time he finishes a term in office he will be 79 or 80 years old. Who knows alzheimers might have kicked in by then. I suppose it's not impossible for him to serve but he probably just wants to retire with a blanket over his legs. More importantly, why would anyone care about policy when we are fast learning that the election is so rigged. The cabal can just go ahead with any policy they want.
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