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Author
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Topic: Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
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JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: 06-23-2003
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Message 361 of 948 (781557)
04-05-2016 9:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 358 by starlite
04-05-2016 9:17 AM
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Re: Moderator Request
Please explain how that has anything at all to do with whether time exists there? Please stop asking questions that have already been answered. For the third time, we have measured the decay rate of 56Ni in SN1987A and it happens at exactly the same rate it does here. Therefore time exists there as here. Yet again, see SN 1987A. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 358 by starlite, posted 04-05-2016 9:17 AM | | starlite has not replied |
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starlite
Member (Idle past 2936 days) Posts: 83 Joined: 04-03-2016
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Message 362 of 948 (781558)
04-05-2016 9:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 357 by JonF
04-05-2016 8:54 AM
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Re: [/quote]
You think you know a lot and say so. Your posts bewry you though.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 357 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 8:54 AM | | JonF has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 364 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:28 AM | | starlite has not replied |
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JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: 06-23-2003
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Message 363 of 948 (781559)
04-05-2016 9:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 359 by starlite
04-05-2016 9:18 AM
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Re: Special Relativity
I am asking you to stop with the bare assertions that there is time there as we know it. You are doing what's called "projecting"; assuming that others behave as you do. You have provided many many bare assertions and no evidence. I have provided evidence and references and explanations.
As I pointed out that is the sole basis for the distances and the sizes and etc etc etc. No, you made bare assertions that tine is "the sole basis for the distances and the sizes and etc etc etc." You have provided no evidence or analysis or argumentation to support those bare assertions. At this point it's pretty certain that you can't. Can you prove me wrong about that? Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 359 by starlite, posted 04-05-2016 9:18 AM | | starlite has not replied |
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JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: 06-23-2003
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Message 364 of 948 (781560)
04-05-2016 9:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 362 by starlite
04-05-2016 9:21 AM
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You think you know a lot and say so. Your posts bewry you though. Gee, it's funny that you can't come up with any meaningful responses. Ain't that a hoot? Can you explain why my posts are incorrect or betray ignorance? Dollars to donuts you won't be able to when you return. (bewry??)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 362 by starlite, posted 04-05-2016 9:21 AM | | starlite has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 365 of 948 (781561)
04-05-2016 9:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 364 by JonF
04-05-2016 9:28 AM
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Back On Topic
JonF, dont pour gasoline on the fire. 
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 364 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:28 AM | | JonF has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 366 of 948 (781562)
04-05-2016 9:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 364 by JonF
04-05-2016 9:28 AM
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bewry == one of the popular kiddie memes, supposedly an early English form of betray but mostly found in video gaming and kiddie chat rooms.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 364 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:28 AM | | JonF has not replied |
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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2153 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: 05-10-2007
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Message 367 of 948 (781664)
04-06-2016 10:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 361 by JonF
04-05-2016 9:21 AM
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SN1987A
JonF writes: Please stop asking questions that have already been answered. For the third time, we have measured the decay rate of 56Ni in SN1987A and it happens at exactly the same rate it does here. Therefore time exists there as here. Yet again, see SN 1987A.
In addition, this 56Ni decay occurred inside a star, at tremendous temperatures and pressures. Yet this did not noticeably affect the decay rate. This is significant; it provides an answer to YEC claims that radioactive decay rates changed in the past due to environmental factors. If they don't change inside a star, why would they change under the waters of a global flood?
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 361 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:21 AM | | JonF has not replied |
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NoNukes
Inactive Member
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Message 368 of 948 (781731)
04-07-2016 1:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 360 by starlite
04-05-2016 9:20 AM
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You confirm you do not understand how the measure is taken and what it is comprised of. If any other poster wants to know we can discuss that. You have shown yourself to be boringly closed minded. Amazing. What Jon has described is exactly how the measurement was done. The method that you describe, which uses parallax based on the size of the earth's orbit is essentially useless for measuring distances to objects beyond about 400 light years away. SN1987a is more than 400 times as far away as that. Why don't you consult one of the many sources that describes the astrophysics involved? Here is a link to one such description: Page Not Found | Department of Chemistry
quote:
After the progenitor star Sk-69 202 exploded, astronomers measured the time it took for the energy to travel from the star to the primary ring that is around the star. From this, we can determined the actual radius of the ring from the star. Second, we already knew the angular size of the ring against the sky (as measured through telescopes, and measured most precisely with the Hubble Space Telescope).
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 360 by starlite, posted 04-05-2016 9:20 AM | | starlite has not replied |
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dwise1
Member Posts: 5949 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 5.5
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Message 369 of 948 (781733)
04-07-2016 2:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 364 by JonF
04-05-2016 9:28 AM
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Dollars to donuts you won't be able to when you return.
Dollars to donuts he's too young to even understand "dollars to donuts".
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 364 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:28 AM | | JonF has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 370 by Pressie, posted 04-07-2016 8:46 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Pressie
Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: 06-18-2010
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Message 370 of 948 (781736)
04-07-2016 8:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 369 by dwise1
04-07-2016 2:37 AM
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Dollars to donuts he's too young to even understand "dollars to donuts". I don't think that his youth is the problem.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 369 by dwise1, posted 04-07-2016 2:37 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9143 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 371 of 948 (781751)
04-07-2016 11:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
04-05-2016 9:37 AM
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Re: Back On Topic
JonF asking Starlite to show how he is wrong is very on topic. That is how a discussion forum works. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but people spouting shit need to be exposed as spouting shit. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 365 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 9:37 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 372 by Phat, posted 04-07-2016 11:40 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 372 of 948 (781755)
04-07-2016 11:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 371 by Theodoric
04-07-2016 11:13 AM
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Re: Back On Topic
Theodoric writes: JonF asking Starlite to show how he is wrong is very on topic. That is how a discussion forum works. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but people spouting shit need to be exposed as spouting shit. You have a point, but I was trying to allow starlite a chance to humble himself, grow up, and hang with us for awhile rather than pulling a driveby hit & run and act as if he knows more than we do. thats all
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 371 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2016 11:13 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 373 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2016 11:52 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9143 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 373 of 948 (781760)
04-07-2016 11:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
04-07-2016 11:40 AM
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Re: Back On Topic
But he is going to do that anyway. Starlite has no desire to discuss and grow. I don't care if he "humbles". That is just one of those religious words that actually mean nothing. Asking JonF to alter his posts because starlite is the issue is not the solution.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 372 by Phat, posted 04-07-2016 11:40 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Son Goku
Inactive Member
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Message 374 of 948 (781840)
04-08-2016 4:19 AM
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Reply to: Message 347 by starlite
04-04-2016 4:56 PM
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Re: Moderator Request
There's very simple evidence that time exists in the distant universe. If you look at distant stars, wait a while, then look at them again, they will have changed. Hence they change state, so time must pass for them in order for these changes to occur.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 347 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:56 PM | | starlite has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 375 of 948 (781845)
04-08-2016 8:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 374 by Son Goku
04-08-2016 4:19 AM
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Topic Synopsis
Son Goku writes: There's very simple evidence that time exists in the distant universe. If you look at distant stars, wait a while, then look at them again, they will have changed. Hence they change state, so time must pass for them in order for these changes to occur. Thanks for stepping in and clearing that up. You are one of my favorite Science Posters. Steering this topic back on topic:
quote:
The young Universe position is logically on a weaker footing than an old Universe stance.
The YEC arguments base themselves as providing an alternative explanation for old Universe evidence. They do not provide any 'facts' that categorically prove a young Universe, just supposed new interpretations that allow for a young Universe. This being said, you only have to provide a single example of an old Universe that cannot be argued with and, ergo, you have falsified the young Universe position.
Sounds logical from a Science perspective. For anyone interested in what everyone had to say over the last 13 years, feel free to scroll through the topic and read all of the answers (and non answers) that fueled this original discussion. Otherwise simply state your opinion from this synopsis of how the topic author--no longer active by the way--felt.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 374 by Son Goku, posted 04-08-2016 4:19 AM | | Son Goku has not replied |
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