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Topic: SN2016adj
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frako
Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 16 of 52 (778859)
02-25-2016 10:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 15 by Pressie
02-25-2016 8:38 AM
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yea the truth should be determined by whosoever's theory has the most likes on the internet. Not this Satanicly biased science. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by Pressie, posted 02-25-2016 8:38 AM | | Pressie has not replied |
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Modulous
Member (Idle past 235 days) Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
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Message 17 of 52 (778876)
02-25-2016 3:09 PM
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Thought it might be worth linking this thread to Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A) quote:
As I see it, there can be no way around the older Universe interpretation of the distance to supernova 1987A. And I am talking about the GEOMETRICAL method of calculating the distance. This doesn't involve anything like standard candles, or relativistic redshifts but on good old trigonometry. (I do hope the YEC's accept trig.) No way of varying the speed of light (one of the lamest concepts in YECdom) will at the same time explain this supernova being nearby and yet not changing the observed radioactive decay rates of the nickel and cobalt from the explosion. This, and I stress, GEOMETRICAL distance gives a value of approx. 170,000 light years. No if's and's or but's about it
If for no other reasons that Eta Carinae was in the thread.
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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2382 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: 05-10-2007
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Message 18 of 52 (778894)
02-25-2016 9:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by jar
02-23-2016 8:47 PM
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jar writes: The recent supernova, SN2016adj, first appeared in the skies here on Earth on February 8 earlier this month. It is located in the nearby galaxy, Centaurus A which is about 11 million light years away from us. Since we know when the light from this supernova first showed up does this single event set a minimum age of the Universe at at least 11 million years old?
I think it's a good argument, and it does have a chance of changing the mind of a YEC who is open to looking at the data. I have a missionary friend who was formerly YEC. SN1987a caused him to rethink his position. He could believe that light was created in transit, but he could not believe that God would provide details of a supernova explosion that never happened. He is now an old-earth creationist (OEC).
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by jar, posted 02-23-2016 8:47 PM | | jar has not replied |
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starlite
Member (Idle past 3164 days) Posts: 83 Joined: 04-03-2016
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Message 19 of 52 (781306)
04-03-2016 10:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by jar
02-23-2016 8:47 PM
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No. It means that earth time may not equal star time.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by jar, posted 02-23-2016 8:47 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 20 by Pressie, posted 04-04-2016 7:01 AM | | starlite has replied |
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Pressie
Member (Idle past 226 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: 06-18-2010
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Message 20 of 52 (781337)
04-04-2016 7:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 19 by starlite
04-03-2016 10:51 PM
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No. It means that earth time may not equal star time. This one is funny. So, sun time doesn't equal earth time, even though we see the sun around 8 minutes later?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by starlite, posted 04-03-2016 10:51 PM | | starlite has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:15 PM | | Pressie has not replied |
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starlite
Member (Idle past 3164 days) Posts: 83 Joined: 04-03-2016
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Message 21 of 52 (781370)
04-04-2016 1:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Pressie
04-04-2016 7:01 AM
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We see everything in time that exists here. How would we know if time did not exist the same or at all out there?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Pressie, posted 04-04-2016 7:01 AM | | Pressie has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 22 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 1:51 PM | | starlite has replied | | | Message 24 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 3:12 PM | | starlite has replied |
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JonF
Member (Idle past 418 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: 06-23-2003
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Message 22 of 52 (781395)
04-04-2016 1:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:15 PM
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How would we know if time did not exist the same or at all out there?
Observation. General Relativity predicts that time exists throughout the universe. General Relativity makes many predictions about what we should observe if that is true and, by golly, when we do the observations we see what GR predicted. E.g. gravitational redshift observed in white dwarf stars or the change in orbital period of PSR J0348+0432. There's loads more. You are, of course, welcome to provide an alternate theory that squares with our millions of observations. Many people far more educated than you have tried. They have all failed.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:15 PM | | starlite has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:15 PM | | JonF has not replied |
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starlite
Member (Idle past 3164 days) Posts: 83 Joined: 04-03-2016
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Message 23 of 52 (781416)
04-04-2016 2:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 22 by JonF
04-04-2016 1:51 PM
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From your link "We report on radio-timing observations of the pulsar J0348+0432 and phase-resolved optical spectroscopy of its white-dwarf companion, which is in a 2.46-hour orbit. We used these to derive the component masses and orbital parameters, infer the system’s motion, and constrain its age." They USE time. Timing. Timing as seen from and based on earth time and space. Religion.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 1:51 PM | | JonF has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.1
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Message 24 of 52 (781457)
04-04-2016 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:15 PM
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A Hypothetical Question
starlite writes: We see everything in time that exists here. How would we know if time did not exist the same or at all out there? Theoretically, when we look out there through a telescope, we are looking back through time. Is it possible (though not likely) that what we see through that lens is all entirely in the past and that the stars could now have disappeared?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:15 PM | | starlite has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:37 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.1
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Message 25 of 52 (781459)
04-04-2016 3:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by jar
02-23-2016 8:47 PM
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Wish I May Wish I Might
jar writes: The recent supernova, SN2016adj, first appeared in the skies here on Earth on February 8 earlier this month. It is located in the nearby galaxy, Centaurus A which is about 11 million light years away from us. Since we know when the light from this supernova first showed up does this single event set a minimum age of the Universe at at least 11 million years old? One would think so, if all of the data is correct. Also, I would be interested in your answer to the hypothetical question that i asked starlite. Theoretically, when we look out there through a telescope, we are looking back through time. Is it possible (though not likely) that what we see through that lens is all entirely in the past and that the stars could now have disappeared?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by jar, posted 02-23-2016 8:47 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 26 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 3:24 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 52 by Astrophile, posted 04-06-2016 8:33 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 52 (781462)
04-04-2016 3:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
04-04-2016 3:16 PM
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Re: Wish I May Wish I Might
Phat writes: Theoretically, when we look out there through a telescope, we are looking back through time. Is it possible (though not likely) that what we see through that lens is all entirely in the past and that the stars could now have disappeared? Do you know what a super nova is?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 3:16 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 27 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 3:30 PM | | jar has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.1
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Message 27 of 52 (781465)
04-04-2016 3:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by jar
04-04-2016 3:24 PM
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Re: Wish I May Wish I Might
I think so. Bigger stars explode for some reason. I'll have to google it to find out why. Basically I always just assumed that some stars exploded and other stars imploded causing black holes.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 3:24 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 3:35 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 32 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:39 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 28 of 52 (781467)
04-04-2016 3:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
04-04-2016 3:30 PM
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Re: Wish I May Wish I Might
So what is left after a supernova is not what we would consider the same star, correct? So SN2016adj is a death stage of that star. If that is the case then what we are seeing today is actually how sn2016adj looked 11 million years ago. That star ceased to exist as a star 11 million years ago. Still with me?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 3:30 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 3:36 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.1
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Message 29 of 52 (781468)
04-04-2016 3:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by jar
04-04-2016 3:35 PM
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Re: Wish I May Wish I Might
Yes.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by jar, posted 04-04-2016 3:35 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 52 (781470)
04-04-2016 3:42 PM
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So when we look even further back we are looking at stars that almost certainly no longer exist. It's estimated that our sun will last for another 4 or 5 billion years, but the universe is at least 14.5 billion years old. Our sun is pretty small and boring and so likely has a longer lifetime than many larger suns so it is almost certain that many of the stars and galaxies we see no longer exist.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:41 PM | | jar has replied |
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