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Author Topic:   What's the deal with motor vehicle violations?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 226 of 239 (777601)
02-04-2016 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by NosyNed
02-04-2016 9:13 AM


Re: Limit on Sign isn't All
NosyNed writes:
It isn't just the speed limit that keeps driver's speeds down. People seem to decide that "this is fast enough" and drive at the speed they like.
Yeah, I guess I've observed the same thing. It seems as if the number of drivers exceeding the speed limit and the amount by which they exceed it decreases as the speed limit increases.
Even I settle into a cruise that isn't all that fast considering the car has a 255 kph limit in the computer and is rock solid at well over 200 kph.
Gee, imagine if they'd allocated 16 bits instead of 8 for that limit.
Our street ends at a state highway that's actually just a rural back road, and it's unusual in that just north of here it has a 40 mph speed limit. You can safely travel at 40 mph in some places, but mostly not. It's one of the few roads I've been on where the posted limit seems too high.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by NosyNed, posted 02-04-2016 9:13 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2016 10:28 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 229 by NosyNed, posted 02-04-2016 11:51 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 227 of 239 (777602)
02-04-2016 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Percy
02-04-2016 10:07 AM


Re: Limit on Sign isn't All
Hi, Percy.
Percy writes:
Yeah, I guess I've observed the same thing. It seems as if the number of drivers exceeding the speed limit and the amount by which they exceed it decreases as the speed limit increases.
Someone should do some research and find out if/where this trend reaches an asymptote or equilibrium. In fact, this seems like the kind of thing that has probably already been studied numerous times. Hypothetically*, you could remove speed limits altogether if the proposed "safe" speed limit matches or exceeds the equilibrium or asymptote.
*And I believe it should remain purely hypothetical
Of course, the next question is how much conditioning is involved in the process. I imagine that people may acclimate to higher speeds over time, and then the equilibrium point may shift.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 228 of 239 (777603)
02-04-2016 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Blue Jay
02-04-2016 10:28 AM


Re: Limit on Sign isn't All
Back in the days that Nevada had no speed limits on their highways, everything seemed to run about 85 mph, at least on the straight roads. There were a few >100 mph cars buzzing around, but not any big percentage were that fast.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(3)
Message 229 of 239 (777619)
02-04-2016 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Percy
02-04-2016 10:07 AM


Sheldon!
Sheldon Cooper writes:
Gee, imagine if they'd allocated 16 bits instead of 8 for that limit.
Everyone rolls their eyes at Sheldon

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 239 (777625)
02-04-2016 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Percy
02-04-2016 8:34 AM


Re: Michigan Speed Limits Could Reach 80
But this "85th percentile" rule seems problematic to me. If the speed limit is 70 mph then most drivers will travel at 75 to 80 mph, because it's only five to ten miles an hour above the limit and likely doesn't risk a ticket. If they raise the limit to 75 mph because of the "85th percentile" rule then drivers will begin traveling at 80 to 85 mph, again, because it likely doesn't risk a ticket. But the higher driving speeds should result in more and deadlier accidents and could easily violate the "85th percentile" rule, so they'd have to lower the limit again.
The assumption here is that drivers, left to their own devices, would travel at the speed of light if possible and that there is no reason other than getting caught to travel at a lesser speed.
If people are going to simply tack on 10 mph to whatever the posted speed limits are, then perhaps their assumptions about what will draw a ticket will have to be proven wrong.
Where I live almost no one drives the speed limit, and that includes police cruisers and driver's ed cars.
Almost nobody has ever seen posted speed limits of 80 mph. Perhaps the behavior we see now won't be duplicated at speeds that high.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 231 of 239 (777634)
02-04-2016 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by NoNukes
02-04-2016 2:46 PM


Re: Michigan Speed Limits Could Reach 80
80 mph is the posted limit on the western reaches of Interstate 10 in Texas, and there still seem to be a few folks that push 90. Though my sense is that the proportion is less than in the case of 75 with 65 being the limit.
^ anecdote, not scietifically determined ^

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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 232 of 239 (777757)
02-07-2016 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Coragyps
02-04-2016 8:03 PM


Re: Michigan Speed Limits Could Reach 80
Coragyps writes:
80 mph is the posted limit on the western reaches of Interstate 10 in Texas, and there still seem to be a few folks that push 90. Though my sense is that the proportion is less than in the case of 75 with 65 being the limit.
^ anecdote, not scietifically determined ^
My rule of thumb is the top speed limit is +5 posted in Texas and +10 posted in New Mexico. As for other states generally +5 unless have other information. I also sometimes use the one hour rule - if you are passed by at least one vehicle per hour on the open freeway - they get the ticket not you.
So on I-10 this side of Kerr County, I go 85mph.
Never had a speeding ticket other than once in a school zone back in 1980.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

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 Message 231 by Coragyps, posted 02-04-2016 8:03 PM Coragyps has not replied

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 Message 233 by Percy, posted 02-08-2016 9:27 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 233 of 239 (777774)
02-08-2016 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by anglagard
02-07-2016 6:12 PM


Driving Habits Change With Age
When I was younger I relied upon my radar detector and drove as fast as any road could take. I would drive 60 mph on the straight past the cottages down by the lake where the limit is 30 mph. When instant-on radar became common I would make sure there were cars in front of me before going more than 10 mph over the limit. On highways in my 914 I never had to use my rear view mirror because traffic never approached from that direction. I look back on my younger self and think him crazy and dangerous. My only safe habit was an aversion to tailgating, also leaving extra distance to the car in the front of me when I was being tailgated.
I'm a much more sedate driver now, ironic now that the kids are gone. My attitudes have changed. Getting there in as fast, interesting and fun a drive as possible used to be the goal. Now the goal is to make the probability of safely reaching my destination as high as possible. The amount of attention I pay to what the other guy might do has increased tenfold. I now drive +10 mph pretty much everywhere it's safe, or just keep up with the fastest traffic stream. The outliers traveling at high speed I just let go by. On our local highway where the speed limit is 60 mph there is always the occasional speeder exceeding 100 mph.
I expect my driving habits will continue to evolve. In my 80's I'll probably be that little old guy driving 10 mph under the limit with a long line of cars behind him. If the guys behind me are lucky the cars will drive themselves by then and this won't happen, but in any case, he should still get a ticket for obstructing traffic.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 234 of 239 (778067)
02-15-2016 5:30 PM


Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
Princeton University professor Dr. Imani Perry was pulled over by Princeton police on her way to work for traveling 67 mph in a 45 mph zone. A routine check revealed that her driver's license was suspended and a warrant had been issued for her arrest for a parking offense in 2013. Because of the warrant they had no choice but to arrest her. (Police Release Video of Traffic Stop of Princeton Professor)
Towns are now criminalizing unpaid parking tickets?
The state once sent me a bill for an unpaid parking ticket. They included a copy of the ticket, which had my license plate number, but the description was for a car of a different make and color, and the location was for a place I'd never been. I responded telling them this and never heard about it again. Presumably they looked up the registration and saw I was being honest about the mismatch.
But what if this had happened in New Jersey? And what if the bill got lost in the mail or I moved and it didn't get forwarded, or whatever? So after a while they just issue a warrant for my arrest? Even if I was completely irresponsible and just ignored the bill, that makes issuing an arrest warrant okay?
Last year I read a book about the criminalization of poverty in America, where just filling out a welfare application incorrectly can cause entrapment in a labyrinth of legalisms, indigence and jail. This year I find out you can land in jail for parking tickets. What kind of country is this becoming?
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : "traffic" => "parking" in 2nd para.

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Percy, posted 02-16-2016 9:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 236 by NoNukes, posted 02-16-2016 4:48 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 235 of 239 (778081)
02-16-2016 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Percy
02-15-2016 5:30 PM


Re: Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
Loved these comments by Jeff Edelstein, a columnist for the Trentonian:
quote:
Now having said that
Perry should not have been arrested.
Here’s the thing that I explained earlier this week, that I’m going to explain again, and was the cause of all the guff I got on Facebook: It should be horrifying to all of us that a parking ticket can lead to a court date, which can lead to a warrant, which can lead to handcuffs and an arrest.
All because you failed to put a quarter in a parking meter.
We are simply too quick to arrest people for nonsense. The stories are endless. I Googled for a minute and came up with a 12-year-old girl in New York handcuffed and arrested for doodling on her school desk the United States Supreme Court has ruled you can be arrested for minor criminal offenses, such as not wearing a seatbelt a New Mexico man was arrested for littering (he flicked a cigarette into the street) a man in Connecticut was given a 10-day jail sentence for uttering the word f**k in a public place
And then there’s the 620,000 Americans arrested for marijuana possession last year, but you know, let’s stay on point here.
It’s a point that got lost in the Perry story, a point I kept getting attacked on Facebook over, where everyone and their mother (and my mother) noted she deserved to get arrested! And yes, I agree. Based on the law, she did deserve to get arrested.
But my point, my larger point, is that parking tickets and doodling, and not wearing a seatbelt, and littering, and cursing, and smoking weed, and countless other offenses should not be treated as criminal matters.
And so yes, again, of course: Perry should’ve gotten arrested, because that’s the law, but the law is terrible.
Yes, agreed, very terrible.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 239 (778114)
02-16-2016 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Percy
02-15-2016 5:30 PM


Re: Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
Towns are now criminalizing unpaid traffic tickets?
Traffic tickets in general? Yes, many localities issue warrants for people who receive speeding tickets or other moving violations and then fail to show up for their court dates. But generally speaking, you can clear those things up by simply showing up at the clerk's office sometime before the po-po finds you and making your payment. There's nothing new about failure to show up for court being a crime.
I was completely irresponsible and just ignored the bill, that makes issuing an arrest warrant okay?
The court cannot tell whether you forgot or if you are just expressing your contempt for the judicial system. Yeah, I think issuing a warrant is probably justified.
That said, I think an arrest for unpaid parking tickets is pretty special. I've hadn't heard of that before. I just remembered that I have an unpaid ticket at Duke university.
Last year I read a book about the criminalization of poverty in America,
Yes, that's a pretty serious issue. In some cases people who are currently self sufficient can be driven into complete poverty by the court system. You shouldn't be able to go to jail for parking tickets. I don't see any difference between that and debtor's prison.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Percy, posted 02-15-2016 5:30 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Percy, posted 02-16-2016 5:26 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 237 of 239 (778115)
02-16-2016 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Percy
02-16-2016 9:32 AM


Re: Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
man in Connecticut was given a 10-day jail sentence for uttering the word f**k in a public place
The conviction and sentence may very well be unconstitutional. There are some exceptions such as using profanity as part of fighting words or as part of a speech inciting violence, but those activities are already unprotected speech. Yelling profanity just for the purpose of expression enhancement, surprise, or because you whacked your thumb cannot be criminalized.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Percy, posted 02-16-2016 9:32 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 238 of 239 (778117)
02-16-2016 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by NoNukes
02-16-2016 4:48 PM


Re: Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
NoNukes writes:
Towns are now criminalizing unpaid traffic tickets?
Traffic tickets in general?
Typo. Should have been, "Towns are now criminalizing unpaid parking tickets?" I went back and fixed it in Message 234.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by NoNukes, posted 02-16-2016 4:48 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by NoNukes, posted 02-16-2016 8:14 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 239 (778119)
02-16-2016 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Percy
02-16-2016 5:26 PM


Re: Princeton Professor Arrested Over Parking Tickets
deleted because of its pointlessness.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Percy, posted 02-16-2016 5:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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